hundreth

It shows how misguided and conspiratorial your thinking is. Nothing about allowing this attack is good for Israel or their government. Israel has previously traded 1,000 prisoners for one Israeli. Now there's 200 hostages. The administration has been embarrassed and will likely be forced to leave. Fighting this battle puts Israel in an impossible situation, where they have to thread the needle between international support, concern over their own civilians, concern over their military, concern over Palestinian civilians, etc.

I'm no fun of the current Israeli regime, but reverse the situation. What would happen if Hamas had the IDF's firepower capabilities? Do you think any Jews in the region would still exist?

Hamas is like a cancer you can only root out with intense chemotherapy and suffering.

It's an impossible situation. I hear a lot of people arguing Israel should simply send in special forces. To do what exactly? Kill one or two Hamas leaders? Rescue one or two hostages? The hostages are scattered across the vast tunnel system. The leadership is scattered across the vast tunnel system. This also assumes the IDF is even capable of knowing exactly which tunnel these leaders / hostages are being hidden. How would you find that out? Israel's goal is to eliminate Hamas as a the dominant political organization in the region. There's no way to "special forces" this. As everyone here has already outlined, a ground invasion will lead to tons of Israeli casualties. Seems what is happening is inevitable as cruel and unfortunate as it is.

Truly insane. There was a lot of talk about indoctrination from our educational systems, but I thought it was mostly right wing propaganda until now. 36% of people 18-24 don't even believe it was a terrorist attack. Half of the youth sides with HAMAS specifically, not even Palestinians in general. Half the people up to age 34 believe the hamas killings could be justified. WTF.

If you're referring to me posting increasingly convincing evidence of what actually happened, then yes I am skeptical. I was skeptical to rush to moral condemnation without the story being investigated. It is seeming more and more clear by the minute that this was the result of Hamas.

https://x.com/JordanSchachtel/status/1714350115312255019?s=20

More confirmation.

So video footage doesn't convince you, but audio comparisons are good for you? I wait and see investigations in the coming days.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17a7mmh/hamas_rocket_fails_midair_and_crashes_on_hospital/?share_id=z0WBBpDO5Q_5ljFT-c8hI What actually happened.

"Learned their lesson" - The lesson Jews learned is that they aren't safe around the world, so a group of fighters created a colonial Zionist movement which seized an opportunity to create a safe haven for Jews. What is your point in comparing with Russia? How would one even compare?

https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/17a7mmh/hamas_rocket_fails_midair_and_crashes_on_hospital/?share_id=z0WBBpDO5Q_5ljFT-c8hI Here's what happened. Hamas fucked up.

Do you know the history? They rejected the UN partition which would have given them 50% of the land, then declared war on the Jews and lost. They could have made counter proposals, etc but they declared war. Also, even without context that isn't close to Nazi Germany's treatment of the Jews who created Gas chambers to more efficiently kill Jews. Stop comparing everything to Nazis, nuance is needed.

I feel for the Palestinian people and the IDF is no saint, but I can't take you seriously when you make hyperbolic statements such as "commit genocide" and "same as Nazis." The Palestinian population has exploded while Israel could have wiped out the entire population during these 70 years. They must really suck at genocide. They've also attempted to move towards peace with the Palestinians on many occasions and form a two state solution. Didn't work out that well for the Jews in Nazi Germany unfortunately. To you it's all the same though.

Did Ukrainians sneak into Russia on Christmas and rape / murder the equivalent of 30 9/11s worth of people?

Israel's objective isn't to kill children. The objective is to remove Hamas and their infrastructure. They drop leaflets and instruct civilians to leave the area. There's legitimate discussion to be had about whether civilians have enough time, etc. but trying to claim moral equivalence with Hamas whose objective it is to kill civilians and children in cold blood is ridiculous.

It's better for Israelis to drop their loved ones into a dense urban warzone with Hamas rather than clear the area?

What are you even saying? If it was literal reality that they are already living together the problem would have already been solved. Mainland Israel is a majority Jewish state with many peaceful Muslim minority groups living within, but that is not the same as a radicalized Gazan population who has been raised under Hamas rule their entire lives.

I never claimed Israel is so kind. The one state solution is an unrealistic utopian concept which will never happen. The fact is that Israel was formed as a colonial Jewish state with the intention of being a safe haven for Jews after centuries of persecution in both Europe and the Arab-Muslim world. Whether you agree with the premise or not, the nation of Israel isn't going to self destruct by forming a one state solution. To make matters worse, it would be almost impossible to integrate both people's effectively in the short term. The Palestinians do not want a one state solution either. Both sides hate each other.

When you're a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

This whole trauma angle is corny. This is just human nature. Things happen, many times horrific. The entire planet's geographical lines are predicated on colonialism and war. After centuries of war and displacement, be it the Israeli kingdom, the romans, the ottomans, the British, etc... now we want to choose 1947 as our arbitrary year where history should reverse itself and a nation state should be undone. We don't hold any other nation on the planet to such a wild standard. War happened. The palestinians lost their land, just as the Jews before them had multiple times. My family is Iraqi Jewish, ancestrally there for hundreds of years. The entire Jewish population of Iraq was expelled, our land and properties violently stolen. The same thing occurred in almost every Arab nation in the 20th century. Is my family ever going to get their home back? NO. We have to move on and look forward. The West likes to dangle this resistance carrot in front of the Palestinians as if they'll ever fully take their lands back. This is immoral. It isn't going to happen. They like to demonize Israel for doing everything their nations have done for millenia. The path to peace is to look forward, not backwards. Sit down at the negotiation table, and find the best deal for the Palestinian people which improves their livelihoods.

A real problem is that the more surgical Israel is, the more Israeli casualties there will be. Given the significant loss of life in the country as of late, the relative experience of 30 9/11s... they are obviously hesitant. I don't think anyone expects this to eliminate Hamas, only significantly cripple them.

I explained this in a previous post. Israel doesn't actually expect Hamas militants to stay and for the entire northern region to be clear of all civilians. They'd like for as many civilians as possible to leave the area before a ground invasion. If Hamas leaves too, so be it. The major objective is to destroy Hamas infrastructure / weapon stockpiles without a dense urban ground war and many casualties on both sides.

Fair enough. There’s a lot of misunderstanding about Israel’s motives. Of course they don’t expect to 100% eliminate Hamas. That is impossible. The lines between Hamas militants and civilians are very blurred. What Israel is actually trying to do is avoid a dense urban ground war with hundreds of thousands of civilians. If enough Gazans move south, Israel will come in and destroy Hamas infrastructure, weapon stockpiles, etc. without as much risk to their soldiers and civilians alike. No one actually expects this to solve the Middle East crisis or defeat Hamas completely. Israel has been resigned to doing this sort of maintenance work every decade or so to greatly reduce the risk of attack on their populace.

You do realize that Israel has made huge concessions in the past including land, ceasefires, peace offers, etc. and none of them mattered? What do you hope to achieve placating a group who doesn't recognize your existence and wants you 100% annihilated? What you're saying makes sense in a vacuum, but reality paints a different story. After decades of attempts, the Israelis no longer believe in a peaceful solution. The Palestinians NEVER believed in a peaceful solution. That's where we are now. Of course Israel is going to grab what they can when politics are at play and the alternative has no incentive except for outside criticisms like yours.