hundreth

This is a really interesting conversation. Both of them express what they feel lies at the heart of the issue. IMO Korner is way less naive and realistic, focused on the big picture. Foster seems like he's living in fairy tale land.

Don't waste your time.

It becomes a never ending circular debate because they blame Israel for Hamas. So because Israel is partly responsible for Hamas, they can hand waive away anything Hamas does as self inflicted, and the solution to the conflict in their eyes is the suicide of the Jewish state.

Perhaps. If anything, it pushes us further apart in many cases. When you go through the motions trying to see the other's viewpoints, address their points one by one in good faith, and then see goal posts shift and zero progress made to finding common ground - it personally makes me less apologetic about my views and circumstances because it becomes clear how little others care. At some point all you can do is agree to disagree and defend yourself.

Basically, we feel less alone when we see others going through the same feelings and reacting in similar ways.

Most discussion around this topic doesn't influence anyone's opinion or change anything. It does help us feel validated when we see someone share our sentiments though.

Addresses Deir Yassin and a few other talking points. He's certainly biased in Israel's favor, but certainly food for thought.

The first part, sure. Unfortunately for those who don't like there being a Jewish state and claim it won't be possible - it not only IS possible. It exists right now. Sorry not sorry.

In my opinion they are more credible than their pro Israeli counterpart Alan Dershowitz. I don't know too much about Noam Chomsky's views but I followed Norman Finkelstein pretty closely, and while there is some truth to what he speaks, he goes way overboard and it's obvious he has some Jewish resentment and trauma. Meeting with Hezbollah leaders and proclaiming "We are all Hezbollah" - he's thrown the baby out with the bath water. He did an interesting interview where he spoke about his parents and the trauma surrounding them being holocaust survivors. Here's the Q&A if you're curious: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/qa-norman-finkelstein

After the entire convo we had, and what you were shown... for you to still say that. If you were here in person I would sock you in the face. Unapologetically. Sorry mods.

You don't see that Hamas killed babies intentionally there? The multiple photos of babies burned alive in their cribs in an otherwise in tact room. The bloodied cribs with the baby still there and an otherwise in tact room? How about the "Burned body of a woman with bound hands"? That's not brutal or torturous enough? I'm seriously asking. Are you delusional?

Breakingthewall will see these images and then tell you it wasn't a Hamas operative who brutally murdered them, those civilians accidentally tripped on some AK47s.

So you just refuse to see what is obvious. Honestly reprehensible. I'm no longer going to engage with you man, seriously bad faith.

Are you living in an alternate reality? Look at the photos. You've literally been handed what you asked for you, and you're like an ostrich with your head in the ground. There's plenty more out there, that's just the tip of the surface.

What are you talking about? I literally showed you released photos of babies being murdered and burned released by Israel. Isn't that what you asked for? Even those journalists you're referring to, of course they aren't going to release that footage to the general public. Is that your criticism? Seems you don't understand.

Yes, Hamas murdered and burned babies alive. This was documented. https://www.livemint.com/news/world/babies-murdered-burned-by-hamas-monsters-israel-shares-photos-amid-war-11697128208963.html This article has a few of those photos. I'm not sure what you're on about honestly. Are you seriously skeptical of this? Seems like a ridiculous position to me and I'm not even sure why we're debating it. Go find the disturbing footage on your own, I'm not going to do the dirty work for you.

Yes, this is true to some extent. But also realize the way this is portrayed is that Israel "controls" the United States for nefarious reasons, etc. when the reality is more nuanced. The United States and many other western nations greatly benefit from Israel as a trade partner, technology partner, safety / intelligence partner, military outposts, etc. They are friends. Israel contributes a lot. Of course you will react differently when a close friend is attacked vs. a stranger. Not sure what you find strange about this.

Hamas documented their own doings. Which is why the world at large was sympathetic to Israel in the early days of this conflict. I'm sure there are instances of the Israeli government lying, this isn't one of them. If you're going to pick on a claim they've made, choosing this one actually attempts to minimize Hamas' atrocities and you won't find many who share your sentiment even among anti Israelis.

Yes, they were deleted in the following days because Reddit has some sense. They mostly circulated through Telegram and WhatsApp groups. Every Israeli has seen them, which explains some of the anger. Maybe it's because I'm in this circle, but the first couple of days they seemed to be everywhere. That's where the "under a rock" came from. But these videos have been documented by mainstream media. Breakingwalls is complaining that mainstream media isn't showing them? Not sure what he wants exactly. I still believe they aren't hard to find if you care to look. I still have them in my Whatsapp history.

Consider yourself fortunate not to have seen them.

I've seen you post this sentiment quite a bit, that you're disappointed other Arab governments and terrorist organizations don't attack Israel. Seems you really want to see an escalation. Am I reading you correctly?

So this is the hill you want to die on? You're disputing Hamas' brutality? That's what you consider propaganda?

There's no weird websites, many Hamas videos were widely circulated the day of the attack. They were all over, the combat footage subreddit made the front page. Breakingwall keeps suggesting reports of brutalities and torture by Hamas Israeli propaganda. If he's so interested in seeing the footage, it really isn't difficult.

There's many more videos than that. There's literally a video out there of Hamas surgically opening a pregnant women and pulling the baby out while the live mother is screaming in horror. Are you living under a rock?

I don't understand why you continue to make this point as if it matters. Have you not seen the videos Hamas themselves published? What can the Israeli government possibly show you that Hamas hasn't shown you themselves?