hundreth

Low level poor kid? Are you aware how command hierarchies work? The goal is to break Hamas' control of the region. How you do that is by going in and rooting out Hamas from the ground up. Hamas is like a hydra with many heads. You cut one off, another grows back. Israel has eliminated many of their leaders and commanders over the years. This is the necessary step to uproot them completely. It's not mutually exclusive with eliminating the leadership, it's just doing that alone doesn't solve anything. The Hamas leaders will be taken out too.

So what if their leaders are elsewhere if they have no power in the region any longer? Not sure I understand why that point is brought up. If all you did was eliminate the heads of Hamas, nothing tangible would change... as the next in command would become the leader and status quo would continue. Those leaders in Qatar will have their day too. Hamas will be finished very soon. That's not to say radicalization and culture will change, but the entity known today as Hamas will cease to be. Now what you do with that power vacuum to actually effect change is a different story. That is the truly difficult part. I hope something good comes of it.

Believe it or not, that's what Zionists mostly did. They bought up unused swamp lands. That's also what the majority of the land they were given by the UN was. Existing Jewish communities and infertile desert / swamp lands. Once war erupted, the circumstances changed.

Lol I have a feeling this help Israel more than harm it when all is said and done.

There are obvious reasons for Israelis to fear immediate "full sovereignty" to the Palestinians. Would you be opposed to a pathway to sovereignty with a specified timeline and conditions which build trust over time? Let's say for example 5 years. Recognizing Israel. Minimal attacks. Terrorists jailed. Etc. Obviously Israel would need to abide by a set of conditions specified by Palestinians as well.

There are lines Israel will never cross despite Western pressure, which are leaving large security gaps.

There's people here literally arguing to move Israel to the United States and some of you are responding to them in good faith

This is a really interesting conversation. Both of them express what they feel lies at the heart of the issue. IMO Korner is way less naive and realistic, focused on the big picture. Foster seems like he's living in fairy tale land.

Don't waste your time.

It becomes a never ending circular debate because they blame Israel for Hamas. So because Israel is partly responsible for Hamas, they can hand waive away anything Hamas does as self inflicted, and the solution to the conflict in their eyes is the suicide of the Jewish state.

Perhaps. If anything, it pushes us further apart in many cases. When you go through the motions trying to see the other's viewpoints, address their points one by one in good faith, and then see goal posts shift and zero progress made to finding common ground - it personally makes me less apologetic about my views and circumstances because it becomes clear how little others care. At some point all you can do is agree to disagree and defend yourself.

Basically, we feel less alone when we see others going through the same feelings and reacting in similar ways.

Most discussion around this topic doesn't influence anyone's opinion or change anything. It does help us feel validated when we see someone share our sentiments though.

Addresses Deir Yassin and a few other talking points. He's certainly biased in Israel's favor, but certainly food for thought.

The first part, sure. Unfortunately for those who don't like there being a Jewish state and claim it won't be possible - it not only IS possible. It exists right now. Sorry not sorry.

In my opinion they are more credible than their pro Israeli counterpart Alan Dershowitz. I don't know too much about Noam Chomsky's views but I followed Norman Finkelstein pretty closely, and while there is some truth to what he speaks, he goes way overboard and it's obvious he has some Jewish resentment and trauma. Meeting with Hezbollah leaders and proclaiming "We are all Hezbollah" - he's thrown the baby out with the bath water. He did an interesting interview where he spoke about his parents and the trauma surrounding them being holocaust survivors. Here's the Q&A if you're curious: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/qa-norman-finkelstein

After the entire convo we had, and what you were shown... for you to still say that. If you were here in person I would sock you in the face. Unapologetically. Sorry mods.

You don't see that Hamas killed babies intentionally there? The multiple photos of babies burned alive in their cribs in an otherwise in tact room. The bloodied cribs with the baby still there and an otherwise in tact room? How about the "Burned body of a woman with bound hands"? That's not brutal or torturous enough? I'm seriously asking. Are you delusional?

Breakingthewall will see these images and then tell you it wasn't a Hamas operative who brutally murdered them, those civilians accidentally tripped on some AK47s.

So you just refuse to see what is obvious. Honestly reprehensible. I'm no longer going to engage with you man, seriously bad faith.

Are you living in an alternate reality? Look at the photos. You've literally been handed what you asked for you, and you're like an ostrich with your head in the ground. There's plenty more out there, that's just the tip of the surface.

What are you talking about? I literally showed you released photos of babies being murdered and burned released by Israel. Isn't that what you asked for? Even those journalists you're referring to, of course they aren't going to release that footage to the general public. Is that your criticism? Seems you don't understand.

Yes, Hamas murdered and burned babies alive. This was documented. https://www.livemint.com/news/world/babies-murdered-burned-by-hamas-monsters-israel-shares-photos-amid-war-11697128208963.html This article has a few of those photos. I'm not sure what you're on about honestly. Are you seriously skeptical of this? Seems like a ridiculous position to me and I'm not even sure why we're debating it. Go find the disturbing footage on your own, I'm not going to do the dirty work for you.

Yes, this is true to some extent. But also realize the way this is portrayed is that Israel "controls" the United States for nefarious reasons, etc. when the reality is more nuanced. The United States and many other western nations greatly benefit from Israel as a trade partner, technology partner, safety / intelligence partner, military outposts, etc. They are friends. Israel contributes a lot. Of course you will react differently when a close friend is attacked vs. a stranger. Not sure what you find strange about this.

Hamas documented their own doings. Which is why the world at large was sympathetic to Israel in the early days of this conflict. I'm sure there are instances of the Israeli government lying, this isn't one of them. If you're going to pick on a claim they've made, choosing this one actually attempts to minimize Hamas' atrocities and you won't find many who share your sentiment even among anti Israelis.