hundreth

Where did I say that? I don't know why you feel the need to constantly make strawman boogeymen out of some of us. Try to actually read what we're writing. I also want to add that your framing of the situation is wrong anyways. Israel doesn't need the hostages to justify taking out Hamas. The attack and their stated intention of doing it again is enough. The hostages are actually a large thorn in the side of the far right Likud leadership. Most of the internal dissent from within Israel is centered around our objectives NOT being primarily about the hostages.

I don't know anyone who says "babies are terrorists." What I do hear is that Hamas uses human shields, and so these outcomes are expected and so the blame rests on Hamas. I don't agree with the conclusion. Hamas does use human shields by operating in civilian infra. However, it doesn't absolve us of not using enough care and discretion to avoid civilian casualties. I also hear that teenagers are given weapons and instructed to go into combat, resulting in additional death of children. I think this is a valid criticism. Unfortunately all of these behaviors are to be expected, because if Hamas were to operate like a normal military they would be wiped out in a week.

I don't live in Israel now but I grew up in an Israeli household and understand where a lot of this comes from. First, the idea that most of them haven't been personally affected is wrong. Everyone knows someone who was killed or kidnapped on Oct 7th. More than that, everyone has a loved one currently serving. It is a very small country. We grew up with the idea that the Palestinians want us all wiped out, from "the river to the sea" as they say. Their actions have not betrayed those words. I'm not saying Israel acted properly either, but the Palestinians have mostly made decisions which indicate they would like us all wiped off the face of the planet. Be it the charter, the attacks, and especially the wars where the broader arab world simultaneously attacked Israel with the intent to destroy them. There were 6 of these wars. SIX. They happened in the last 75 years. Most of our parents and grandparents served in these wars, the country is full of military veterans with war stories. Our leaders are war heroes. Israel's whole ethos revolves around survival. There is an understanding that the Palestinians and much of the broader Arab world wants Jews exterminated. And for that reason, they are having trouble empathizing with thousands of Palestinian civilians dying and living in hellish conditions. That's the big problem, this undercurrent that it's fine if they die if they want us dead. It becomes a toxic emotional response. Not everyone thinks this way, there is also a religious component. Both sides have a religious component which is underemphasized in the West. It's the same reason we frame Hamas and the Oct 7th attacks as an inevitability. These Palestinians have lived in horrible conditions, and so we say that this is a consequence. Likewise, Israelis have lived through 75 years of war in which the intention was to eliminate them, and the latest attack was a direct confirmation of that. Neither side believes the other tolerates their existence.

It's astounding the level of self awareness here. You are the one who began referring to @Nivsch's news post as white noise and virtue signaling, and now you're playing the victim lol. My point was that if you're going to refer to impactful news such as his as simply white noise, you have to reflect and apply that to most of what's posted here. I don't know why I bother explaining though.

Wild straw-man. Did you even read what I wrote? You're arguing with your own imagination lol.

Yes, point is to say that the relative value of this news in terms of actually being able to change the trajectory of what's happening is much greater than most of the news here which mostly comprises of external media figureheads bashing Israel over and over with different words.

Most of this thread and it's contents are white noise and virtue signaling. The Israeli leadership is actually the one group who actually can change the direction of what's happening. Will they be able to overcome Bibi's influence? I don't know. But let's not discount the importance of internal politics. Even western leftist outlets highlight the importance of "Bibi's coalition in shambles." Netanyahu is known as a war-time leader and given the benefit of the doubt to keep Israel and it's interests secure. Which is why this conflict has benefitted him despite almost being criminally charged within Israel before it. With the war progressing as it has, his internal support is becoming thinner by the day.

Speak with a doctor who specializes in this stuff. Do not try to cure her. I believe there are medications that can take viral levels to basically undetectable and essentially non transmissible. If she takes a blood test and has these levels, you can go for it. But again, there will always be a chance for infection and complications. A professional would be able to give you the clearest insight, not an internet forum.

Yes, it's important to be able to criticize "your side." There's many Jews and Israelis who are very critical of Bibi and Israel's role in the conflict. Unfortunately I don't see much of this from the "pro palestinian" side. Who is acknowledging the shortcomings of Palestinian leadership, the human rights groups, the surrounding middle eastern nations, the activists, etc. It seems if you've picked that side, they are all beyond reproach because Israel. We need to be able to be realistic and honest. I've taken a step back from posting here because I was dismayed by the progress in the war and how it was being conducted. At the same time, the rhetoric towards Israelis and Jews at large was becoming more violent by the day. The hope in communicating is to reach someone, and in this frenzy finding any common ground seems increasingly unreachable.

I'm glad you're doing this. Reasonable voices get very little attention in this conflict.

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become.

Loser mentality. For the Palestinians sake, I hope you're wrong. Whenever there is war in the region, they are suffering more. But this is the game anti-Israel voices play. They are more concerned with demonizing Israel than forming a Palestinian state.

Pretty much. Most of these conversations devolve into endless blame games with no beginning or end. We're here now. Both Israelis and Palestinians will not leave the land unless in body bags. Both parties will fight to the death to stay. So you can wax poetic about who deserves to be there, but the result will always be death if you get your way. They won't live together, the one-state solution is dead. At least for the foreseeable future. There's a sliver of hope for a two state solution. We need leaders and solutions to move us forward in this direction. Pro Palestinian supporters will need to move from a justice mentality to a problem solving mentality. Palestinians will never receive the justice you seek, no more than Jews will receive justice for the atrocities they've faced for millennia. Pro Palestinian supporters hate when you ask them for potential solutions, because then they actually need to contend with reality. It's much easier to demonize Israel over and over again. If our conversations were more focused on solutions, we might actually be able to advance the conversation.

What comments did posters here make? Who here has advocated for the indiscriminate killing and/or harm to civilians?

What percentage of everyday Israelis do you believe think what should be done is to indiscriminately kill civilian Palestinians?

Of course Israel's leadership is largely at fault for how this played out... But it is true that bots scanning for sound bites from far right voices in Israel paints a story not consistent with the population at large. If you grabbed far right sound bites from any nation, they would all look insane.

Agreed, though I think it's a fringe group of Israelis who think this way. The unfortunate reality is that hamas is deeply entrenched in civilian Palestinian life, and it's almost impossible to remove them without harming countless civilians. It's really sad. I feel if you you gave Israelis a magical device with two buttons, one to eliminate the most vicious Hamas members, and another to maximize casualties and immediately win the war - they would choose the former. Israelis would love if there were a clean way to defeat Hamas. I believe if you gave Hamas the same magical device with the situation flipped, they would choose to destroy all the Jews.

Israelis don't realize there's western bots scanning every Israeli outlet for translated sound bites. They're oblivious to the PR games happening here.

The interesting thing about the first video you posted is that there's immediate push back from the TV hosts. This is one disgusting voice in a nation with different perspectives. We have voices like that in the U.S. as well. The framing is like that video represents the entire Israeli ideology and strategy. It doesn't.

Believe it or not, Israel's response is an effective defensive deterrent. No one in the region expected such a strong response to Hamas' actions, bordering on unhinged. From a strictly defensive perspective, no one wants to attack a crazy Israel. On the other hand, they've destroyed much of their international reputation, and this could have broader consequences for them.

It really doesn't say anything. Hamas stumbled upon an unprepared military outpost just as they stumbled upon a music festival. Dead jews are dead jews. Hamas on the other hand, doesn't have clearly defined military outposts. There is no equivalent of a sitting duck unprepared Hamas base just waiting there. The Hamas civilian casualty rate is completely irrelevant.

Way to be blatantly antisemitic, ignorant and delusional. If you're going to criticize the dark sides of religions, critique all of them on the same grounds. To state that Judaism specifically is x, y, z while the others are not is wild... and just shows your underlying framework of hate.

Everything needs to be seen with context. What happens when two sides with historical and religious ties to the region who hate each other and have been fighting for centuries spills into modern times? This is what happens. The world tries to pigeon hole the story into a simplistic good guy / bad guy narrative. Whichever suits you depending on where you're standing. They're just innocent Palestinians, 100% victims who are akin to the Jews in Nazi Germany. They have no agency in war. Or... these are all terrorists and there are no Palestinian people. Both groups have an underlying religious and zealot like foundation now. They don't care about your arbitrary time cutoff of when it's ok to conquer a land. They don't want peace and coexistence. They want the land. When one side doesn't budge, the other side digs in even harder. It's an endless cycle.

This is true.

While everyone here complains, this is what is actually happening in the world. We act as though Israel is some rogue state dragging the United States into battle, but the big picture is that this is a proxy war dating back to 1967 when the KGB started the PLO.