hundreth

I'm glad you're doing this. Reasonable voices get very little attention in this conflict.

I agree with most of what you said, but this ICC stuff is mostly political theater. We get it, everyone hates Israel. Now what have you achieved? Is international isolation going to make Israel commit suicide and cede the land to the Palestinians? Of course not. What's more likely is that isolation makes nations more aggressive, as we've seen throughout history. The U.S. is both Israel's greatest ally and the only one capable of tempering them and reigning them in. It's a double edged sword. Without the link to the U.S. they'd just be another nation trampling a group of people whom no one cares about on a scale much greater than Israel. Which is what is happening all over the world right now. It's clear new leadership is needed on both sides, and with that there is the possibility for renewed hope. The longer this drags without a push for statehood, the worse it will become.

Loser mentality. For the Palestinians sake, I hope you're wrong. Whenever there is war in the region, they are suffering more. But this is the game anti-Israel voices play. They are more concerned with demonizing Israel than forming a Palestinian state.

Pretty much. Most of these conversations devolve into endless blame games with no beginning or end. We're here now. Both Israelis and Palestinians will not leave the land unless in body bags. Both parties will fight to the death to stay. So you can wax poetic about who deserves to be there, but the result will always be death if you get your way. They won't live together, the one-state solution is dead. At least for the foreseeable future. There's a sliver of hope for a two state solution. We need leaders and solutions to move us forward in this direction. Pro Palestinian supporters will need to move from a justice mentality to a problem solving mentality. Palestinians will never receive the justice you seek, no more than Jews will receive justice for the atrocities they've faced for millennia. Pro Palestinian supporters hate when you ask them for potential solutions, because then they actually need to contend with reality. It's much easier to demonize Israel over and over again. If our conversations were more focused on solutions, we might actually be able to advance the conversation.

What comments did posters here make? Who here has advocated for the indiscriminate killing and/or harm to civilians?

What percentage of everyday Israelis do you believe think what should be done is to indiscriminately kill civilian Palestinians?

Of course Israel's leadership is largely at fault for how this played out... But it is true that bots scanning for sound bites from far right voices in Israel paints a story not consistent with the population at large. If you grabbed far right sound bites from any nation, they would all look insane.

Agreed, though I think it's a fringe group of Israelis who think this way. The unfortunate reality is that hamas is deeply entrenched in civilian Palestinian life, and it's almost impossible to remove them without harming countless civilians. It's really sad. I feel if you you gave Israelis a magical device with two buttons, one to eliminate the most vicious Hamas members, and another to maximize casualties and immediately win the war - they would choose the former. Israelis would love if there were a clean way to defeat Hamas. I believe if you gave Hamas the same magical device with the situation flipped, they would choose to destroy all the Jews.

Israelis don't realize there's western bots scanning every Israeli outlet for translated sound bites. They're oblivious to the PR games happening here.

The interesting thing about the first video you posted is that there's immediate push back from the TV hosts. This is one disgusting voice in a nation with different perspectives. We have voices like that in the U.S. as well. The framing is like that video represents the entire Israeli ideology and strategy. It doesn't.

Believe it or not, Israel's response is an effective defensive deterrent. No one in the region expected such a strong response to Hamas' actions, bordering on unhinged. From a strictly defensive perspective, no one wants to attack a crazy Israel. On the other hand, they've destroyed much of their international reputation, and this could have broader consequences for them.

It really doesn't say anything. Hamas stumbled upon an unprepared military outpost just as they stumbled upon a music festival. Dead jews are dead jews. Hamas on the other hand, doesn't have clearly defined military outposts. There is no equivalent of a sitting duck unprepared Hamas base just waiting there. The Hamas civilian casualty rate is completely irrelevant.

Way to be blatantly antisemitic, ignorant and delusional. If you're going to criticize the dark sides of religions, critique all of them on the same grounds. To state that Judaism specifically is x, y, z while the others are not is wild... and just shows your underlying framework of hate.

Everything needs to be seen with context. What happens when two sides with historical and religious ties to the region who hate each other and have been fighting for centuries spills into modern times? This is what happens. The world tries to pigeon hole the story into a simplistic good guy / bad guy narrative. Whichever suits you depending on where you're standing. They're just innocent Palestinians, 100% victims who are akin to the Jews in Nazi Germany. They have no agency in war. Or... these are all terrorists and there are no Palestinian people. Both groups have an underlying religious and zealot like foundation now. They don't care about your arbitrary time cutoff of when it's ok to conquer a land. They don't want peace and coexistence. They want the land. When one side doesn't budge, the other side digs in even harder. It's an endless cycle.

This is true.

While everyone here complains, this is what is actually happening in the world. We act as though Israel is some rogue state dragging the United States into battle, but the big picture is that this is a proxy war dating back to 1967 when the KGB started the PLO.

I proposed a step forward, which you ignored.

It's generally a no win situation for Israel, whose aid money is stolen and turned back into attacks against them. I believe if Israel could fund the Palestinians into a peaceful and prosperous state, they would. Especially with Hamas in place, this isn't possible. Right now no one should be sending them money, all it does is fund Hamas. There's a path forward, but will involve the international community having feet on the ground. Even if the world sent billions of dollars, it wouldn't solve a thing. There needs to be a direct intervention here.

Do you know what those words mean? They don't mean what you say they mean. Science literacy might help here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_studies_on_Jews Here is a good resource which gives a good high level overview. Suffice to say, there's ample evidence.

What are you talking about? You can see through genetic testing a clear lineage to biblical Israel.

As a Mizrahi (middle eastern) Jew, this is wrong as well. Ashkenazi Jews have historic ties to Israel just the same. This has been proven through genetic testing in recent times.

Yeah this "holocaust" speak has become very fashionable. Outsiders like to mental masturbate to Jews committing a "holocaust" but we know even at our worst it's extremely different.

Has any world leader been convicted for war crimes in modern times? Netanyahu is a boy scout compared to some of the psychos walking this earth and leading nations in recent times. But of course, everything with Israel will be amplified.

As Jews & Israelis we need to be careful. As you say, we have these incidents that don't reflect the greater vision or plan. If we don't do anything to stop this from happening, we're allowing it to happen. And given everything that happened, there's little space for compassion in the current landscape. But we need to be very careful.

I wouldn't even disagree with that. I don't see how. "Israel has the right to defend itself" means it should be able to protect it's citizens. There's nothing especially outrageous about that. Yeah, Israel has stopped listening and you see a lot of the discourse around the U.N. not condemning the Oct 7 attacks. The language around it matters.