Bizarre

@NTOgen Continuing our discussion here. This is why once you understand the Fundamental problem teaching, you can also spot all the spiritual egos popping up everywhere. It's no more evident than in the recent discussion about Trump. Look at all the people up in arms and stuck to their opinions about this guy, and their experience in general. It's just object seeking on another level, a person qualified for enlightenment doesn't give two hoots about what's going on in the world because the world is seen as "empty" to a person ready for freedom. Existence is entertainment for a liberated person. It's "of interest" but ultimately there is no need to change it, because what is their to be gained by trying to change reality? Realtive reality doesn't even matter because it's irrelevant. The place could go up in smoke for all a liberated being cares, because it's just an illusion. Really. Maya created this for a laugh, and non duality means it's all the same, it's all consciousness. This doesn't mean enlightenment strips the person of their opinions, but even opinions are just seen as part of Maya, a contributory factor to the stage play being acted out here. It's all Gods creation, and the enlightened person has nothing to do with it. The self is beyond God. This is why you want to get rid of satva asap. It's just a means to an end. Satva has a downside (like everything in duality) and that is a holier than thou attitude. So satva is conducive to enlightenment, but it can also be a hindrance too.

Of course. The jury is not out. We just need to be able to discriminate awareness from the objects appearing in awareness, and drop the tendency to try to experience Enlightenment. Because that tendency to experience Enlightenment creates a vasana that takes us away in the opposite direction.

If you want my advice my friend, you're barking up the wrong tree. You should be concerned with (if you want to know the truth) why you think "you" are a person stuck inside a body stuck inside a world. Because that's the complete opposite of reality. Spend time thinking about that instead of looking into someone's eyes, because you can have all the cosmic experiences you like, in the end all you will be left with is the same, mundane, ordinary, everyday reality you find yourself in right now. What IS the true nature of that reality that you're so desperately attempting to escape? What's your persons role in this reality? What is the person? What is the girlfriend? Who or what are they in relation to you? Who are you? Why do the scripitures say that the objects are you but you are not the objects?

@Anton Rogachevski Anton, Something to think about: "It's shit. But it's warm and it's mine" Think about it.

Guys . This dynamic meditation thing was Osho. The 93 rolls Royce narcissist. The "sex guru". Obviously worked on him to get rid of all his fear and greed . Come on people, Don't fall for this crap.

@Samuel Garcia Awareness is not a state of no mind guys. It's the self . The substrate of all manifestation. The only reason you need to know what awareness is, is so you can break identification with the objects. Then you understand that the objects are you, but you are not the objects (you don't suffer from their dynamics). This is what non duality means. Non duality is just recognising you are the same jerk you were before, but that you're also free from it. All states belong to samsara, obviously, because all states are subject to change.

This is not my view. Ive never once gave my opinion on this forum with regards to awareness. Things people say, yes, but never about reality. It's all Vedanta and what has been undone in me in terms of just blindly believing things without considerable thought.

@WelcometoReality Is this a joke question?

The jury is not out on who you are . It's been well revealed for thousands of years. You just don't know because your teachers don't know because their teachers didn't know either. That's why nobody can tell you what you are. They just say it's "nothingness" or non conceptual. These are not answers.

And NTO, there is nothing dogmatic about it. It's an inquiry into the human condition. Dogma is beliefs is it not? If you reject Vedanta then it can only mean that you do want dogma, and you can't handle anything else. Because dogma feels good to the individual jiva, it doesn't want to face reality because that would be the end of it . This forum is a parroting of Leo's work for the most part. The "dogma" of pretending to be non dogmatic. Unless you are interested in logic and liberation then you are not going to see the self deception happening here. People just want to have beliefs spoon fed to them and if it agrees with what they read in the modern spiritual world, then "it must be true". Look how much bullshit I've called out on here so far. Even Leo himself can't really back up his assertions. And nobody is coming forward with a well thought out argument. Because they can't . If all you have is beliefs and nothing to back it up, you're not going to publicly make a tit of yourself by approaching this subject .

If you're qualified it might set you free within a few hours of hearing the teaching. You just don't know at the moment, until it clicks. When it clicks it clicks. The qualifications are a description of a self realized person on the verge of self actualisation. The purified mind.. all you need is the right teaching, then by the grace of God you're permanently set free. And you're correct, it is mythia and pixels on a screen. What's important is that you get it, rather than mentally masturbating on here..yeah? Because the longer you spend assimilating the garbage in this forum, the further away from enlightenment you're getting. My advice to you personally NTO is that if you understand what's being said here, and you do, you want to run down this little time wasting addiction you have on here and get working on your qualifications.

@Anton Rogachevski Anton, it's fine. Your path is fine. It's for you to tread. These paths are all valid otherwise they would not be there. Nobody is disputing it . All I'm saying is that there is more. And one day, maybe when you're tired of chasing your own tail you will thank God he left us the sampradaya, because if you hadn't have given up by then you will be tearing your hair out trying to figure out why you're still not enlightened. I'm only interested in liberation. I'm not here to play around with paradigms. It's a waste of time to be frank also. But I do understand. I'm nowhere near enlightened, but I can tell you I'm way further along now ive got a proper map and not just endless talk "about" enlightenment, which is all one hears these days. They don't tell you how to get from a to b and what a and b even look like to "all people". You got to understand that with an individual teaching you're only getting that person's experience that they are trying to communicate. This teaching is universal. You're free to believe that were all different here, but there is only one Self, and it's manifest form in Samsara operates in exactly the same way in everyone - the subconscious. Unless you know what to look for, you're left with netti netti and the direct path. But none of those teachings include samsara, they only talk about the pure self. Most of enlightenment is about understanding samsara and the dharma field. Adyashanti is good. He's an enlightened man. So is Mooji . They are both mature human beings. But try getting anything out of them in the way of a teaching and you just find their opinions coming through. Which doesn't fair well for the student and puts the student in an awkward position , even if they are not aware of it. The student is left grappling and confused and stuck to a subjective experiential description of ONE persons enlightenment experiences. The sampradaya is a complete teaching designed to liberate all people because it's impersonal and millions of enlightened people contributed to it over thousands of years and it's been fiercely defended against corruption. In fact, the anti corruption aspect is built in and this is the scripture and teacher format.

@Samuel Garcia Yep. You got it. Being "aware of something" is an object. What is illumining experience itself? That's awareness. It has nothing whatsoever to do with you, or your personal Witnessing consciousness. The reason you can be "aware" of it now, is because I have pointed it out to you. Which is indirect knowledge. It's only the intellect that can capture now what you are not. That's self inquiry. When your I thought identifies with this awareness and the knowledge is firm, that's enlightenment.

@DimmedBulb Can I offer some more tips? That's my manly way of responding to a cry for help Meditation is not focusing. You don't have to be that hard on yourself. Do it on the train, at your desk, in the bath, whatever you want. Do a little body scan which will relax you. Just put attention on your head, face, shoulders, arms and work down. Takes two mins. Then three deep breaths. Watch the breath for a minute and then let the mind run for a moment. Then just sit in the bliss of the silence that pervades everything. That's you, awareness. Just let go. You can think. You can feel. Do what you want. The point is to just learn to relax for a while . No big deal. "Succeed"at this little programme first. A little meditation habit (no hardcore SDS or anything like that) and the little gratitude thought experiment. That's all you need. Then success will come.

@DimmedBulb In my opinion Leo is a little bit naughty in the way he presents this stuff. Like it's all tremendously hard slog out of the dark dungeon of the stone age into the light of high consciousness 70 years later ,... Emerging as a fucking Buddah on a golden cloud with a staff made of every esoteric superpower ... Blah blah You get the picture? It's not hard to be happy and content 90% of the time. It just requires a few better habits and a bit of understanding that youre already happy and confident and that all this seeking is the problem

Yes, I agree. Desire is painful and is a major obstacle. At least you're conscious enough to see this, because most are not. You can undo this kind of thinking. I haven't tried the life purpose course, I admit that, but from what I see of Leo's work, I assume it's all about becoming the next Tony Robins lol. But I have a tool you can use now to combat this, and it's just noticing how you feel, accepting it, stepping back, and applying an attitude of gratitude to life. These thoughts are not you, they are just programmed by you because of your past actions. So you can interrupt them and insert this gratitude practice. That's the problem. It doesn't require work in the sense that you must manufacture happiness. You just need to understand something. And use the tool I gave you. Meditation you can forget about. It's ok for enlightenment, and has some health benefits, but you can meditate just by chilling and arriving for a moment. Then remember to offer thanks for what you have right now. I think if you can do these two small things you will get some "results" not just in terms of happiness but in terms of real results because of the confidence you will have. I admit, if you don't meditate now, how you going to complete this life course? Is it like another new year resolution? Good intentions? Start small. Then move onto the course when you mastered the basics

Exactly.. So why are you going for the objects, when you know damn well that happiness is your nature? Why are you not just going for happiness directly? It doesn't feel like happiness is your nature when you're full of desire, rumination or regret. But that's because you ain't been told that your nature is happiness itself. Think about this. Really think about it.

It ain't that (for me anyway) I got no quarrel with fast enlightenment. My teacher became free within 18 months. My concern is, is Benito actually free himself? Because he doesn't look like a free man. And if he's not even free, how is he going to make you free?

Can I suggest that the result didn't make you happy for long, because it's not actually "things" that make us happy. Think about this: Where is happiness coming from? The objects (results, experiences, relationships) Or Does happiness come from the subject? You? (I appreciate you know this on some level, but what were doing here is getting to another level to fix it).?

@DimmedBulb If the result seemed to give you happiness at the time. Then what happened to the happiness? If the result was supposed to contain that happiness, then why did the happiness fade after you got the result? This is an inquiry. Stay with it.

Ok. So you want the results AND to feel good enough . I'll give you that. Think about this. Did the last result you scored give you the happiness you're seeking by going after that thing? The content of the wants don't matter much for this inquiry. What matters most is we look at what's going on inside, the motives.

Let's analyze this. You said you were observing it objectively. Maybe not objectively enough. Sometimes you need help seeing what's true about this motivation.. Think about what you really really want, and why you want these things. Do you want the results for the result itself? Or do you want the result to ESCAPE the limitation you feel by not achieving a result? Contemplate that..

Ha. That's because you might be under the wrong impression about what this life is about? What's wrong with acting and not expecting a result? That's what you want. You don't want the potential. You want the freedom from feeling trapped. Trapped by circumstances.. Is that not true?

@DimmedBulb The results are not upto you. Never have been. When you understand that you can relax.