Bizarre

Tamo Guna for you. Even if this was true, and you were able to get a bit better of a more impartial perspective (I was hoping for a peer tested review to be honest) This doesn't mean this behaviour is ego driven. It's a programme. I'll say it again, maybe you did not catch it first time. The ego is the part of the subtle body that "claims" these experiences. These experiences happen with our without an imaginary entity there to claim it .

A daily mail news article is your evidence? Ffs.

What does Osho say about this one? Perhaps we should consult the blue person too? I'm actually surprised that you're willing to swallow Osho material and spread it around like a cat spraying it's territory, then try to argue with logic on here. Bizarre.

If you can point me to some evidence, I'll take a look.

Animals experience these emotions. But they don't make an identity out of it. They don't claim these feelongs. When one cat has a fight with another cat and loses the fight it just walks away and licks it's wounds back to health and thats the end of it. It doesn't make an identity of it and get on the phone to its therapist and start crying about what a failure it is. It doesn't listen to Osho for hours so it can feel superior about itself And it doest keep asking the same qualestions over and over So it can prove its supremacy against another ego. Because it doesn't have the capacity for language. It's a rudimentary programme. YOU don't let go of anything. You stop perpetuating the story by identification with the feelings. Only humans do that. Got it? Or do you want me to draw you a picture?

Exactly. That's why I can tell you it's baloney . Some of it is truth and some of it was his opinions. When you're tamasic and intellectually dull you just indiscriminately swallow all of it because you're so desperate for knowledge because the self under the spell of illusion feels so dumb and empty and ignorant it looks for objects in the form of "information" so it can feel educated. It's not the pursuit of freedom, it's the indirect pursuit of freedom in the form of mistaking the objects for the self. That's the human condition. So when I was done with Oshos baloney and realized the limitations of it (that's called assimilation of experience by the way - learning the lessons inherent in life, which burns karma, makes the mind more satvic (closer to the truth) and that's when Isvara starts putting things in your lap that actually make sense. Because you earn it . You earn karma. So this is something you need to go through yourself. Understand that as you swallow Oshos truth, you also swallow his ignorance. After that it's time to move on. Or don't. Just stay here and continue to be intellectually dull and seeking information to fill the emptiness. Upto you.

@Prabhaker Yest it can. Can you read my friend? Or you just here to spray Osho scented piss around the forum while all these give you points for your contradictory half baked ideas you stole from listening to hours of garbage from an egomaniac who needed 93rollls Royce's to feel ok about himself?

What are you talking about ? Muhammad was a murdering rapist and Krishna was made up as a teaching tool . How old are you? How long you been in this game? What's your intentions here? Quite frankly you're getting on my nerves with your stupid comments about things you don't even know about. If you got nothing of value to contribute here then why post? Why don't you f##@ off back to where you *#@## came from you f***@## complete ££##@ yeah? Ok??

Sorry Leo. Are you taking the piss? You seem like a pretty intelligent guy, but sometimes I wonder if you're joking with me or not, cos I can't believe someone can be this stupid while showing your face in public. So...if you have studied all the spiritual traditions in the world, you would have studied Vedanta and if you had studied Vedanta it would have made you drop your beliefs about what you think you know enlightenment to be. But you haven't have you? So how about you go do the thing's your prescribing and go study it for yourself and come back and we can have a conversation. Cos right now you're just making a public tit of yourself.

@Prabhaker This is where education falls short. You equate ego with the entire subtle and causal body of a sentient being. In a human subtle body (your own direct experience) there is an ego, an intellect and an emotional mind. The causal body is the conditioning. Not everything is "ego".

Thanks. I have not read his books, but this sounds like very direct knowledge. Accurate too. More importantly however...(drumroll)... What does Mr. Bean have to say about the issue? I'd genuinely like to know cos I really don't want to develop a lop sided view of reality

Haha. Spot on. If someone thinks there is something wrong with you, in the garbage they go. The problem with that however, is you're going to be on your own, because 99% of people think there is sometbing wrong with them, and if they think there is something wrong with them, they also think there is something wrong with you too! Welcome to samsara. Least the weather is nice now and again So the issue is, what can be done about this condition? Nothing. Cos you can't win here, it's a zero sum game and the only solution is to understand what this here really is.

@Prabhaker Yeah, I think you're right about the meditation thing, starting it is what matters. I guess if I were to project meaning onto your statement, are you suggesting that I should f off with my conversation because this is a beginner's forum? No Vedanta allowed here? Because other than that interpretation, I don't really understand why you're making a comment on this thread? This is a conversation about liberation and enlightenment qualifications.

Enlightenment only means one thing. Liberation. There are no stages to enlightenment either. But you just pointed out a very big problem with the idea of "consciousness work": unless you got your definitions right and everyone is on the same page, any conversation about it is meaningless because the map gets corrupted and this is why we have this vast spiritual landscape of distorted teachings.

I understand you dont have time to read all of the threads in their entirety. But I dont need to study anything, it's all been worked out. Saying that, I have read lots of spiritual books, and realized that most of it is corrupt versions of chips off the block of the grandaddy of all spiritual teachings, and the one that still churns out enlightened people by the thousands to this day. Its the sampradaya, and its logic hasn't been successfully refuted since day one. Nobody has to study shitloads of anything, all you need to do is sign onto the logic and let the knowledge do the work if youre qualified. Its absurd to say that you have to study vast mount of spiritual literature to gain freedom, where does that end exactly? And it's just more object chasing. And of course, you're speaking from your limited experience, I think youre conflating this limeltless consciousness thing with the objects again. Not your fault, but ignorance is always trying to throw us off course and that manifests itself as misinterpretations of the knowledge. I've not heard any respectable teacher of the science of consciousness tell me I need to study all this stuff to gain freedom. When you understand samsara, you can see the holes in most everything else. Which is why I'm reluctant to swallow what you're saying, because a mind full of logical contradictions is not even remotely fit for inquiry into existence. So I have just gone straight to the core knowledge rather than take a million year detour around the mystical wonderland of "consciousness". Youre speaking about maya, and the objects in it, I'm speaking of freedom from maya. Once you got that handled there is nothing else to do. This is why the word "Upanishad" means the end of knowledge as it's the end of the spiritual search for meaning, and not just the knowledge presented at the end of each Veda. If I was to take my chances between you and the sampradaya, I'm going to have to chose the sampradaya I'm afraid. Sorry bout that.

This doesnt even make logical sense. Who are you parroting Leo? Enlightenment means the end of seeking. The end of knowledge, the end of your spiritual journey here. The end of doership (how can actionless awareness do anything about something that is not objective, real?) This is dull, tamasic and formula based thinking, and you contradict yourself. You conflating self improvement with enlightenment.

Sounds dodgy. But if hes doing it to avoid the backlash of the bleeding hearts he's probably wise. I don't trust it though, he's a human being and if anyone has been on this planet long enough, they should know that a human beings teachings are not to be trusted (and if you don't you deserve all you get), hes not associated with a tradition that protects him and the student from corruption. But im sure it will make good bedtime reading? For me anyway I dont want to sound like a dick, but this whole holism thing is a joke. Get enlightened first then we can enjoy all the B.S maya presents to us, but if we rely on the bs to help us think correctly we will just get bogged down in the mire of quoting Rumi poems and whacking off to spiritual porn. Sorry for leaving you with that image

That's great. I'll have a proper look at that later before bed. Just had a lil peek at his thoughts about Buddhism. Shankara discredited that path 1200 years ago. Do you know whos the person behind the writing by any chance?

If you're not pissing a few people off in life, then youre basically a lying bastard I don't read Jed Mckenna because I don't know who he is. And never trust human beings, because they always always distort the truth. Just go straight for the tried and tested method. Its all been worked out

I'm not here to crack a tough nut. I'm here because I enjoy speaking about enlightenment, and I was pleased you picked up on what the sensible approach is. I am in a position to do pretty much what I want these days, and cos Im not interested in saving the world I like to speak on forums. It helps me clarify the teachings for myself too. Which we need to do, cos ignorance is deeply intrenched, and this isnt about compiling nice comforting beliefs, its about inquiry.

It's not that. It's just there is so much ignorance in the spiritual world, that when he came along with things that some people were not willing to look at he pissed some people off. He speaks openly about it, laughs about it because he's free to do what he wants. He's not deluded by experiential enlightenment and has not been unfortunate enough to pick up silly ideas from a mish mash of non dual teachings that dont do anything to resolve the doubts of duality. You need a certain amount of brain power to think about and destroy your delusions, parroting non dual teachings from a wide range of sources doesnt quite cut it. Although, because tamo guna is strong in people who just want to follow formulas and compile beliefs and not think, this is what you get. Ignorance is always operating, and if you just read books youre going to misinterpret the meaning of things. People dont like having their beliefs destroyed with logic - even spiritual people. He's no different to his tradition, there all the same - the teachers go through years of training on the Bhrama Sutras so they dont get strawmaned by people claiming they know better. Its watertight.

You're old enough and ugly enough to email him and ask him yourself. However I will say this, he is a lineage holder, and his teachings are there for all to check with the original source texts. So if you have a quarrel with what he says, you better contact the sampradaya because hes just teaching what they teach. Start with the Chinmaya Mission if you have an issue, or if you are interested go join his facebook group and watch him tear the tamasic logical absurdities he gets challenged with to pieces. Its educational to say the least

@NTOgen You will get it if you are open to understanding. If you want to figure it out by yourself, be prepared for a long wait. My teacher is an enlightened mahatma for over 45 years, hes doesnt give a shit, he loves fishing and teaching and Isvara looks after all his needs. His vasnanas serve the total in the way Isvara intends, not the way his ego intends. Listen to the right information and enlightenment will be possible for you

I've been told that our enlightenment will come when it's the right thing for the total. Real enlightened people serve a purpose here just as others do, and I guess a person with liberation has a lot going for them influence wise? It's hard to figure out, the main thing is to keep working on the qualifications, clean up the misinformed ideas about what liberation is, and keep plugging away at it? It will come, but the main thing to realize is that the self cannot be realized as an object. Its not possible, and as you say, its a logical absurdity! As long as that is clear then its a major obstacle out of the way then

Possibly. I guess my point was more to drive home the fundamental problem and expose the spiritual ego. Ramana was a saint, but he didn't "care" as in nothing made any difference to him. He didn't go out do-gooding to try to change things. He didn't even teach, really. And he never gave anything to anyone. He peeled potatoes and ran his ashram and lived his life. But yeah, he was a saintly person, but he was not interested in changing anything. Swami Chinmayananda on the other hand (my teachers teacher) (considered the "Pope" of India) cared, but he only cared in so much that his main vasana compelled him to translate the teachings into English and make them accessible to the world. But he didn't set up a charity and try to change the world. He just did his thing and lived like a free person. Ghandi was not a free person. He was a rebel. Mother Theresa was a deeply unhappy person, not free at all, forced to care because that was her job assigned to her by the Roman Catholic church. Its the gunas and vasanas doing the doings, not the person. But a lot of people have the false impression that enlightenment itself is about do-gooding. And I think it's helpful to clear that up. Which makes me a bit of a do-gooder? Oh fuck... The main point is, you can't change any of it. Don't confuse insensitivity with what I'm saying. All things in samsara are the gunas and the vasanas, enlightenment just means you are free, and the most important thing is svadharma. The main point is and enlightened person knows that everyone here is getting the karma that is due to them, and that Isvara is taking care of the total. We don't try to help people unless they are ready and ask for help. We don't get involved. It's not the enlightened persons business to meddle with samsara. The tradition doesnt preach to anyone, and the teaching is delivered in the spirit of two friends having a conversation. Nothing more. Real teachers don't accept emotionally needy people into their satsangs either. This is why you need a complete teaching about the structure of samsara, otherwise you will get confused about what samsara is, and still project the self onto the objects and the objects onto the self (which is what you are doing, sadly) its called "mutual superimposition" and its one of the main stumbling blocks. However, every tom dick and harry thinks they know what enlightenment is...it's just a sign of the times