George Paul

Can you please find another place to discuss guys ? I need to debunk intelligence here somehow, and you are staying in the way. I mean your egos are stronger than mine, I can't face them.

So , what you think about the creator being intelligent ? Could it be ? And why ?

So, for every piece of honest debatable issue in the last video i saw, all that I was answered with was: "you dont know what infinity is", "you have no idea", and now I am supposed to backlash. Ok, just let me know when you are ready to discuss about this serious and sensible subject , without holding that only you are the recipient of the truth, and with an open mind, and not at least, reading and trying to grasp what I write.

Intelligence has it roots in materialism. Leo considers that the creator is intelligent because he created a world that "works", aka atoms bind together, planets attracts each other, and so on. This is thinking. We gotta get out of this box. It is exactly what i propose @Nahm. Stop thinking the universe is "working". It is not. It just exists.

Including declaring this infinite as intelligent ? Or if anything thinking about infinity is wrong, why you keep doing all these videos ? Are they all wrong ? They are, of course, you said that long time ago, but still, they give us a hint. Well, the hint with the intelligence is wrong. You can do much better than that. I saw you debunking much harder pieces of false beliefs people tend to have than this one.

I understand and agree totally. I can not grasp the infinite. That is way I stay away for qualifying it with any properties. Especially intelligence which is double tricky than any others. It is tricky because we use this concept wrongly even in our daily life.

Wrong

1. First and most important: raise consciousness not feeling good 2. Suffering is the process to get to 1 AND suffering is feeling good in the same time. Can't avoid suffering 3. this is questionable: I think that our natural state of being is to identify with the mind. We need an extraordinary attempt to get rid of that 4. We don't know it is the ONLY way. Just maybe, it is A way. 5. This, despite could be true, still sounds like a dogma. Actually, all 5 statements together smell like a new dogma, a little religion based on 5 sacred statements which will have to be learned by heart by the children. For example, statement nr 4 might be translated as this: do not search other ways to eliminate suffering cause you might be reported to the school principal or get arrested. Buddhism is contradicted because suffering is a central part of it, and by large, it highly advocates for accepting suffering as part of life, not rejecting it.

At least 4 of those 5 statements contradict Leo's teachings and Buddhism by large.

"The paradox is that reality is both a dream and not a dream" @Joseph Maynor But who is sleeping ?

Which one ?

Just a teenager depression. You are the age of my daughter, I know what I am talking about. Kundalini manifestation is not the same thing with Dark Night Of The Soul. You merely seem to have the last one, but as I said before, I really suspect you have a teenager personality crisis. Baga-ti mintile in cap.

In his last video Leo claims that the new vision of the actualized.org would be becoming a sage. Now I am really confused. But that's ok, it will pass. The confusion steams from this: all my self improvement work was revolving around the illusory nature of the reality and finding the real nature of me, with all that those things implies, like killing the ego, forgetting what you were holding as truth , etc. Now Leo proposes a new approach, in which you have to be knowledgeable enough, to embrace a relatively wide spectrum of fields, such as science, mysticism, arts, religion and maybe more, and to master your human being but not those fields. You have to study a lot. Meditation and enlightenment diminish in importance. Becoming a sage is of a higher importance and higher level. For the moment I don't buy Leo's vision, because what I really want is to know myself and the ultimate nature of the reality. If that implies being a sage, that's ok, if not, I don't care, I don't want to write books or give speeches, I only want to understand me. So don't you think that Leo is parting from a well established goal and well grounded system that he have thought us so far , to a questionable and maybe selfish approach, as becoming a sage, meaning that you become something, which is in contradiction with zen ? Edited: one of the weak part of Leo's last video ( in my opinion) was that he mentioned several times Osho's teaching and once Sadhguru, among others. But Osho was mentioned the most. Strangely, recently I just came to the conclusion that Osho is partially scam, some parts of what he teaches is comprised of jokes and false, non-existent, suppositions, misinterpretations of other religions and people.

You are right. The concepts you have mentioned are real material constructs, if we define those concepts as in-prints in brain fabric. The real question is now if there really exists another real material "thing" outside the brain that was the cause of those brain in-prints. We will never be sure. We can only access the in-prints from the brain, not the presumably "real" object that caused that. That's why we seek enlightenment , to have a direct experience to see what the heck are those "real" objects.

My two cents: do not want to become anything. Do not have any desire. Your text is full of WANTs and DESIREs and BECOMEs. Remind that any happiness you get is paired with the same amount of pain. They go together. I can see you don't have any suffering (apparently), nor are you curious about seeking truth. Why are you meditating then ? To become better ? You already are better. That's all I know so far. Sorry, I am not a sage. But you asked for help and I stopped by to look.

Interesting

Very good theory. Now, the best thing you can do is to drop it. This way you will benefit a lot by training your capacity to break attachments.

Usually those who says "things are what they are" don't have an attitude or intention of anything, just be. Not just know, just be. That's how that "attitude" stops you from knowing. You might heard about the power of not knowing, or zen's beginner mind. I am not talking about ignorance here, so don't rush to execute me. Dunno, maybe I am in confusion, maybe zen masters who barely produce a sound or just show you an orange or a palm when they are asked something, maybe they are sages. Maybe the silence is the best answer they can produce, and there is where the real wisdom is.

Yeah Aamir, that's what I am afraid of. If what you said is true, and my feelings are that it is, then there is a big contradiction between finding yourself and being a sage. By finding yourself I don't mean necessarily to be enlightened, but to be on the path. That path is much different from the path to being a sage. To sum up: A sage has a wide view of all what reality is comprised of. He always has a wise answer to any question put by people. See Osho in this respect. An enlightened or wannabe one tries to unlearn everything, so the only answer he could give is: the things are how they are. Not much knowledge in this answer, but who can say it is not true ? It is a different kind of wisdom, much different from what all the guru in the market show off. In this regard, is a zen master a sage ? But that's ok, I am at peace now with what I have learned, it is a simple matter of choice which path to follow. Too much noise for nothing.

wrong, true, wrong wrong: i know what a sage is, I only say that I could never be one true: yes, I can decide for myself to be or not a sage wrong: personal development has little to nothing to do with enlightenment which has little to nothing to do with being a sage

True. Wow, actually what you just said is enlightening. Thnx. I was stuck with Leo's teachings.

Yes, now you have understood why I opened this topic.

They are a living encyclopedia.

He says that we, the adepts, should have as our goal to become a sage. Kinda Osho, not in isolation, but in the world.

The original double slit experiment has no explanation so far just as the whole concept of quantum mechanics has not. That experiment was one of the foundations of quantum mechanics. No one knows what QM (quantum mechanics) means and many say that we will never know. If you currently have the idea that the ultimate fabric of the universe is a neural net, welcome to the club, that's so old that my grandpa would laugh at it, but of course, it is just mental masturbation. I didn't mean to judge you in any way, nor give you advice, I just wrote here my two cents since I was involved during my life in neural networks, theoretical physics, virtual reality and many more. Now, for several years I ve been having a strong feeling that the ultimate nature of the universe is emotional. That's how I heard of zen and then Leo. And now I wish I was meditating all those years in which I was modeling the nature, god, intelligence, consciousness and more with my own thinking. So, once again, don't waste time in theories (edited - unless you are well paid for that), just go out and get as much emotions as you can. (Shit - advice again, i cant stop myself, another neuron bites the dust <--- ha ha that was a good one, see ? Having fun is more funny than not having fun ).