Nahm

@lmfao The idea of there being two paths in a sense comes to mind. That of desire being a nature of fear, and that of desire being a nature of love. I suspect you inherently, profoundly know the latter, and yet are ‘dipping your toes’ in the prior. I wouldn’t do that. You are the light and the joy. The appearance of you & your world are what creativity is. I think you’re pigeonholing the best, most beautiful aspects of your being, as something which ‘needs to die’. That perspective is mundane, and that doesn’t resonate. So “mundane” ‘ain’t it’. You’re it. The best of you is “it”, always has been, and always will be. You’re naturally lighthearted, loving & sincere. It almost feels as if you’re expecting the best of you to die. Perhaps there is a calling for more nuance in life direction, a clearer picture of what you want to commit to and create. Maybe while you could be looking at that in a light & easy going way which is actually natural for you...maybe you’ve picked up some beliefs from other people that this life & nonduality stuff must have a serious stage, a loss stage, a ‘dying of reality’ stage, etc. I’m betting it’s clear to you in your heart and in your bones that is all nonsense.

As you noted, part of the path is recognizing “my first thoughts“. They don’t feel good because they are of an old paradigm which is playing itself out of the mind. Untangling. Right there in the very same knowing of those thoughts, is the love, passion and desire of which they aren’t resonating, and the presence of peace in letting the thoughts go. The knowing, love and peace are always present. Listen to that love, know that first. Then maybe some thoughts. I know it sounds silly, but in the same sense that you are knowing your foot, and all the shoes just come and go. Notice, recognize, feeling...and thoughts come and go. The ego is also believing other people need to be involved in this. They don’t. Write letters to people, without any expectation of mailing them. Empty both barrels so to speak. Empty everything that you wanna say. The problem is not about the opinions of others, it’s attachment to your thoughts, about the opinions of others. Notice others are not preventing you from taking your trip, only thoughts. Proper daily morning meditation of 40 minutes, and expressive writing completely changes this. When you do trip, the benefit of this is like an innate effortless superpower, as it is for life as well. You could “power through it “on a trip, but I don’t recommend it. Better to ‘do the work’ and let the trip be what it may. They tend to be rewarding in a beautiful sense. Thought attachment is the norm, the order. There’s no ego, no fear, and no mountain. There is literally one thought at a time, about those “things”, and the ability to relax the body and breathe from the stomach. That’s it. That’s the whole show. One thought at a time. Don’t nestle up to those “first thoughts”. Take the wheel, switch to “how do I want to feel?” “if they’re thinkin and choosin for me...then who’s thinkin and choosin for them?” At the end of the day, each one is only doing the feelin for one. Stop playing the game that’s not true. The very first step is recognizing you forgot you’re fucking awesome. ??????

“My parents don’t love me”. Is that true?

Inspect direct experience. It’s far simpler than conceptualizing. If the question arises, “Who created God”...what exactly in direct experience, as in right now, is a “who” and a “God”? Is there any direct experience of either of these? Perhaps the direct experience is precisely as it appears, thoughts. Need it be more than it is? Likewise, have you any direct experience, right now, with a “Big Bang”, or a “prior to it” - or is that also, thoughts? Then in kind... “so that God could experience itself as a creator”...is a concept, which is built on thoughts, rather than actuality, or direct experience. Further still, “was there ever any nothing before there was something”....what is nothing? What is a “something”?

@Zak If you are knowing what you are wanting, aren’t you therefore all set? Why is there anything at all that needs to be done, such as the ‘dumping’?

@Rasheed Awesome. So well said. ??

@BipolarGrowth Great share man, thanks. There is a bit of ‘muggles diagnosing wizards’, or materialist separate selves diagnosing ourself goin on. Infinite nuances too. Tricky stuff.

I’m saying this to try to help, not to be critical...none of the stuff above (I kind of drew out the highlights) is anything more than perspectives which don’t resonate because they aren’t accurate. This is ‘listening’ to thought, rather than ‘listening’ to feeling, and thereby swiftly knowing “that ain’t it”. We ‘wrestle the ox’, yes, that happens apparently, but we don’t give it a place in existence. It is to be seen through, not assumed & believed to be an adversary. Imo, what is accurate, is this is an initial noticing, a consideration & contemplation of actuality, but is a superimposing of fears upon the actuality still yet glimpsed. An initial emptying out of falsities, but they are being focused on, held, believed, over-scrutinized...when they could be known to be false by how the perspectives feel, and as such, simply let go. It is the narrative in spite of feeling, rather than in accord with it. It’s worrying about actuality, it is not inspecting, understanding, nor experiencing the actuality. It could be said there is ‘up side’ and ‘down side’ to this forum and discussing nonduality, but this unfortunately exemplifies the later. It is a joke, in the sense “it” is not serious. The “punchline” is that which you are worried about, and crediting fear, anxiety, uncertainty and potential loss to - is already actually you, and therefore all such perspective is absolute unjustifiable. Working through the concerns, perspectives, and understanding feeling, the experience of it, all completely valid and justifiable. Crediting this to “a separate source”, aka awakening, enlightenment, actuality, etc, is not valid, which is why sincerity feels different than seriousness. There isn’t any ‘thing’ to ‘take serious’. Sorry for The Good News. ?? I hope it’s taken as such. It could only be misconstrued as serious in the believing there is a potential loss, which there is not. A case can not genuinely be made, on a nonduality forum, that nonduality is a bad thing happening to you, with an implication it is happening to you beyond your control or focus, or attentiveness in feeling. Listen to feeling, let it slap you accross the face, that such thought fall out. When the movie of purification plays, should you be so lucky - just relax and breath. Don’t continue believing the movie. Arguably the roughest trap, is feeling the knowing of what you don’t want - and rather than deducing and implementing what you do want - in life - .....projecting the feeling which is the knowing of what is not wanted, onto spirituality, via the narratives.

@LfcCharlie4 Nice little mind bender, that it takes one to know one, as there are not two, isn’t it? No bending at all.

@Hardik As you, infinite consciousness, recognize your infinitude appearing through the prism of an apparent mind as a finite ‘thought’, knowing only your formless limitless being, I am not, and thus I am enlightened. In all other seeming cases, I am whatever you say I am.

@Jo96 Thanks. Congrats on the baby btw. God is sending the highest of guru’s right to you. You will see.

If you inspect, you will find there is no separation between a cosmos and the knowing of it. It’s not so much intervening with a process, but you and the knowing of your self, or, infinite true nature. Experience is, through the prism of an apparent mind, the limitations of which are projected onto the experience of reality by means of how it is known. In redirecting the apparent attention of consciousness back upon it’s source, the finite mind is ‘seen through’, and the limitations and the apparent existence of the mind are obliterated and illuminated as well. Time, in the sense, ‘lifetimes’, is one such projected limitation. Eternity refracted appears to itself as time, and accounting for the experience of the refraction, ‘life’ times.

You’d have to not know.

@JayG84 Yep & yep. Those seem common though. On the psych’s, it was taken as tripping. Didn’t know of any narratives. For what it’s worth, there’s no weaker or stronger ego or identity. There just isn’t any. Also, this pretend place is quite mystical & magic, imo. And the ‘bonds’ were not lost but made whole. One big infinite bond of love, if you will.

@JayG84 Totally. When I was little and would hear people say stuff like “oh, that’s just how I am ??‍♂️“. I remember wondering, how and where are people even getting this information.

@Annoynymous Not knowing.

@CultivateLove Nothing. That’s kinda what makes em a sage.

@Annoynymous I think it’s safe to say he blew past that a while back.

@Jo96 “What you seek is seeking you”. - Rumi You probably just spent a lot of years, doing & learning a lot of things, working hard, developing & using your intellect to succeed, to make good of whatever cards you are dealt - day in, and day out. “Eating shit sandwiches, and managing to smile none the less, with clean teeth”. She needs a round peg, you became it. He needs a square peg, you became it. Probably feels like bending and twisting to be whatever part everyone and each situation needed, and you arose to the occasion, and did what was need, you were what was needed, whatever was needed. Got done what needed to get done. That probably has reached it’s ceiling. But this ‘ceiling’ is not of the doing, I suggest, the ceiling is of the way of experiencIng of the doing. The fundamental understanding of what experience, actually is. The doer paradigm in such a place might sound like.. “If this is it, I’m kinda...done with all this. It’s fine, but it ain’t what I’d hoped, and I can sincerely say I gave it my all. So maybe it’s time for me to just say fuck all this. Maybe there’s something I need to go see, or find.” You might be ready for the reality check on this “doing”, and this “efforting”. There is often something at the base level, something most fundamental in understanding, that a seeker get’s ‘wrong’, which down the path inevitably must be understood, such that The One ‘breaks-through’. You might say, just as modern society has built itself on the fundamental misunderstanding that consciousness arises from matter (the body & brain), a seeker can begin their path & practices upon the fundamental misunderstanding that the seeking & practices are leading somewhere, that one is becoming something, that there is a finish line & celebration in which one is definitely, finally, “there”. In either case, as you said, this is indeed futile. You probably did meditation daily for a while, maybe a retreat or two, knew some peace, and maybe, but probably not, tried psychedelics. I’m speculating on all of this obviously, but intuitively, I don’t believe you’ve done the inspection work. So now you’re at the place of “somethin ain’t workin here”. But I would offer that there is no call to figure out how to get ‘something’ working, but rather, to know & understand what ‘some’ ‘thing’ is. The non-doer paradigm...meditation, every morning and as needed again in the afternoon, is fundamental. Why? For a uniquely specific reason, which is counter-intellectual to society’s collective beliefs. Because it is the very activity of the mind, “ thinking / thoughts”, which stands to be seen through - stands to be known as the actuality of what it really is. The perfect peace a seeker seeks, is the very self of the seeker seeking. It is nowhere to be found. It can never be found. But seeking, it to seek, to look for this peace, for the Truth, everywhere. Of course, as you rightly note, it is the intuition, all along saying “I am here”. Yeah, great, heard that a million times, right? How the fuck do “ I “ get “there” !? You don’t. You inspect, “here”. We’re all born ignorant, yada yada...and we learn we are ”doers”, “survivors”, “providers”, etc. It’s necessary, though it doesn’t ever quite “fit” for one in touch with that intuitive calling within. So that calling get’s mistakenly put on the back burner, as the duality of all dualities is assumed... “I can’t commit to the path cause I got x, y, and z I have to do...I’ll come back to ‘the path’ later, when x, y, and z are ‘all set’”. Doesn’t work that way. That’s noble in one sense, yet a hijacking of the intellect in another sense. That brings you back to that fundamental misunderstanding. The peace sought, is the formless self, which is appearing, manifesting, as “you”, and “this world”. Has been the whole “time”. When it is said that “waves” become particles via observation...there were never any actual “waves” observed. “Waves”, is theoretical, aka M theory, or String Theory, etc. Theories, like the entirety of general relativity and physics, based on the speed of light in perfect vacuum. It’s all based on assumption. There’s no ‘perfect vacuum’, there’s no ‘waves’...and still, intuition says, “I am here”. I think you’re done with theories, seeking, and believing, and it’s high time for the knowing. Life’s not slowing down. Your blessings are only increasing and expanding, and stand to be recognized as such, asap. You’ve completely underestimated the absolute power of letting go. You conceptualized it. You ‘shelved it’ with other ‘things’. ‘Other things’, all ‘things’, are Everything, and Everything is an appearance of - No thing. Even now as you’re reading this, you’re continuing to conceptualize letting go. You’re falling back on beliefs, that “letting go” is not the ‘answer’ you need. It is, you just don’t know the actuality of it yet, on the idea of it. If you’re thinking, “yeah, I do”...No you don’t. You are knowing experience as at-tension, because the intellect has hijacked attention, which is whole & divine, effortless, mystical and magical. You are knowing experience as a ‘focuser’, because the intellect has hijacked it...made it the experience of “my” “focus”. Thus in feeling, there is tension and many thoughts of many things needing your focus, many things you need to do, etc. This paints a glum picture of reality, of experience. What’s “needed”, is the knowing of what experience actually is. More specifically, the complete end of thoughts & beliefs of separation - “in” - experience. What you’re seeking is a perfect peace, which is absolutely, infinitely, freeing & satisfying. You found happiness in the world, in things, objects, relationships, experiences, feelings. You have not however realized the true nature of experience, is that of feeling...One. This is realized via inspecting what is here, now - “this”. The “ordinary”, this “mundane”. That is to say, the letting go of everything you believe, and everything you think you know, about everything. Meditation is then completely reinterpreted, recontextualized. No expectation of awakening or enlightenment, or of any gains of any kind. You’re probably thinking “I can’t believe I just read all that, got my hopes up, and he’s ending this rant on meditation being the answer here”. If so, politely, yet firmly, ask the person closest to you now, to slap you across the face, and go run cold water from the faucet on your head for a few minutes. The peace you’re seeking is the joy which is Being, appearing as “reality”. In meditation, and through out your day, every single arising thought must be let go. If a thought arises about “he’s making an enemy of thoughts though” - let that thought go to. Nothing “dies”, there is no death. There is nothing to fear, you’ve literally been making up “fear” you’re entire life. It doesn’t not exist. Try pointing to it if there is any question. Beliefs run far, far deeper than you’ve yet considered, and as such, letting go is infinitely deep. Breathe from your stomach, all day, every day. Consciously. You’ve been a “lung breathing sleeper” in a “physical world” - it’s a dream. This is literally a dream. Your dream. The Whole damn thing, is for you. Just for the experience of this very moment - and that is it. Not a second nor a single concern more. Presence. Now. You’re gonna wake up from it though. I can feel it in my bones. In the believing of, the attachment to, thoughts...this now seems to be some life sized story, which is overwhelming, and there is an inclination to ‘run’ from it, to intellectually figure out and solve “what I should do”. But there’s no “it” anyone could be running from. “It” is only the believing of thoughts, supported by an intellectual web of “me” “doing”. We’re all absolutely innocent in this. Any thoughts of the nature of “beating up on yourself”, let them go to. There is already the purification. You know it and I know it. It started a while back, and it’s well underway. You bought a front row seat to the shit show of the mindfuck sneakery of the intellect, the wrestling of the ox. Sit in the seat. It’s your seat. The seat is awareness. It does not come and go. Everything else does. Being’s timing is divine. You will see. There is a fluidity of this that it beyond conceptualizing, so you just relax, and when the shit show arises, you go sit somewhere alone, and cry/barf. Talk here, on the forum about it if you want, but don’t fall for the sneakery of the intellect, when it try’s to convince you it’d be a good idea to make this about someone else. That only prolongs the show. Awareness is absolute. Take your stand there. BE aware of the show. Release, release, release. No averting, no avoiding, no fantasying about running. Let all go in meditation, know some of this peace, be mindful of this peace through out your days. When the shit show kicks up, breathe from your stomach and relax. It can not hurt you. You are unhurtable, untarnishable, immovable - there is only the emptying of all the beliefs to the contrary. I can not possibly stress this enough - it is infinitely worth it. This peace is you - appearing as “you” and a “world”. It’s pure magic.

@Jo96 You’re attached to thoughts. That’s all. What do your practices look like? Imo, you’re afraid of fear because you don’t ‘sit with purification’. You bail on yourself, going to thoughts about yourself, past or future, or you weave someone else into it. So you are ‘believing in beliefs’ without realizing it. Believing the path is in a physical location, etc. That you could ‘go somewhere to it’. You’re not entangled with the problems, faults and aspects of others - those are your thoughts. You intuitively know this to be true, which is why even in having built a great life for yourself, there is still the unrest.

????????????????????????????????

“Me neither”.

@aklacor727 One consideration is that of an actuality of creating & co-creating vastly transcendent (prior to) to abstract models of the projection of mind. “Using” reality, so to speak, which is only ever here & now and does not comprise of past or identity. Perhaps a dreamboard for you, and your s.o., and one shared is the pointing to this. Have to taste it to see. The sameness prior to the fleeting thoughts of difference is delightfully sweet, and most satisfying. If you’re a science buff, you might allow the coagulation of the life and the apparent particle sharing the same true nature of a knowing of what is, or a dreaming and knowing of what’s coming, what’s being created, creating. Where, ultimately, does ‘who each other are’ really ever arrive, but ‘back’ here in the shedding of projections... now, present and aware of creating, here, now, appearing & becoming. The supporting of each other’s creating, and the lifting of it in togetherness as such, as well. Two people knowing what they are wanting, and sharing this adventure, doesn’t know differences between as no mind is paid to what separates.

@JosephKnecht ?? @John Iverson Meditation is the way home.

Lucid dreaming.