Nahm

@zeroISinfinity Ok well let’s read this wonderful thread again instead of derailing it.

@zeroISinfinity I would say for about as long as you project it onto a me, turning lightheartedness into serious matter.

Why is cause & effect a given, exactly? If you want to relieve them more, do what is already working, meditation (non-doing). Personally speaking, I just get out of love’s way.

This.

Already, the effect of limitation of the belief is instilled & apparent. Not everyOne, just like minded souls. But now I’m the not-like-minded soulless one, eh?

@zeroISinfinity Technically, Aqua man breathes the oxygen extracted from the water. (A rare Absolutist-Aqua mic drop) ? ?

It’s because it is an attempt to bring the insights through a paradigm of time and memory which isn’t actual. Think of it this way, the awesomeness of the trip is the realizations, the insights - more acutely, the feeling of the experience of them. Those which are of the letting go, but which mind attributes to the substance as separate of the whole of experience, or, “the” now. When you’re in the trip, the insights are arising from, of, and as, now - not in a past or future, not separate of the whole of experience, but “in” the now, during the trip. “Then”, “after the trip” (same whole of experience - no past or future has yet occurred)... there is thinking that there is a past, believing thoughts (memories)...which is the veiling of the very same now that is the very delight and source of insights of the trip. Writing them down (voice to text is easier when you’re tripping) no problem...”leaving now” for them has a discord to it, in feeling, because feeling = now. Because there is no past or future. Try to ‘take feeling off’ now, and ‘put feeling in a past or future’, and laugh about that you can not, and in that release, in the humor, “you” are “more” now, than when trying to bring “past” insights “into” now. A more simply communicated ‘tip’...commit to spending one entire day, letting every single thought that arises go, as in appear & disappear. You’ll notice in terms of breadth and feeling thoughts get more & more expansive and all encompassing. Same ‘thing’. This... IS the “loop”! Applying thoughts about it will seem to cover it. Letting the thoughts go will seem to uncover it, because ‘It’, is you. Also (and I really hope you don’t take this personally) you can ‘cut through’ this matter of the desire to remember thoughts & insights with the simple phrase “I am enough, exactly as I am, Now”. (By cut through, I mean in terms of alignment, not cut through time and retrieve the insights). There will be tears, and joy, and this love. Seeing that knowledge is as illusory as the holder of it. The point of doing it is the same as anything else, it is only for the experience, and the only actual experience - is now.

@Vittorio Hit the mother load man, so happy for ya! Appreciated that you mentioned the breathing & survival actualities. People found this so crazy I don’t mention it anymore. Enjoyed the sharing, thank you for taking the time!

Exactly!

@Gesundheit I see this as indicative of the topic. There is arguably no more of a “triggering” topic than understanding nonduality and mental illness. It intrinsically includes the transversing of all that can be said to be disturbing. I see that you see this as about “me” rather than the topic at hand, and I apologize without exemption for anything I said personally offensive to you. That was not at all the intention. There is no experience ‘at my end’ of you being on a ‘lower level’, nor of a me being on a ‘high horse’.

@Superfluo That’s awesome. The present moment / being, is already the present moment, or, being. It’s a self evident miracle. If it’s thought of as a goal, that implies a thought you’re other than the present moment being, or other than.... Being; the present moment. Such a thought has it’s root in a misinterpretation of feeling and is felt and can be inspected whenever it appears, and as such will be ‘untangled’ and feeling & thought effortlessly realigned. The present moment as a goal is nonsense. No offense, I don’t mean you are nonsense, or nonsensical, like “dumb”, or “illogical”, etc. I don’t mean anything like that. I mean the present moment is the very source of sense, as in sensation, as in feeling. The present moment is also your creation. Say it is dry and cold, and it indeed seems so...except, there is still that little bitty suffering to be heard and untangled there. Sometimes when we look to the actuality of the present moment, we experience a barrier or two we have put in place in pure innocence. The barrier can be experienced as ‘drier’ and ‘colder’...precisely because of the relativity to the source of ‘itself’, the source of the thought, or misunderstanding, or misidentification. To assign the quality, or experience of the barrier to the source, is to create an obstacle, to create another barrier. To scrutinize the barrier and recognize the thought, belief or perspective is what is not resonating, is the barrier, is to then see through, feel through, re-connect through the the absence of the barrier. You might expand the notion, or idea of what it is to be intimate, such that the thought of it pops like a ballon of feeling. It would not be uncommon, or “wrong” in any way, to assign intimacy to the experience of sex. Yet there is an infinity of intimacy within you, in “every” “present moment”, a most intimate, a most ‘real’ relationship, a truly real experience...indeed a superfluo.

That what you said was criticism had not occurred to me until you mentioned it. Nonduality is not two. How can nonduality be shifted into? This is ‘it’, there is no ‘out of’ not two. This might bring to light a holding of nonduality as apart from something (idk what) else. ‘Ordinary talking’ is nonduality, and is not the ‘other thing’. God is common sense, unless thought makes it otherwise.

Happiness, joy, and I would add desire. Not for or in attachment for things, but the visceral aliveness enthusiasm & exhilaration of the knowing you are creating as you go. As such, there are no problems or obstacles, unless it is created now to be the case. Sexuality is the desire. It feels great, as in one is lost in it, all focus is upon the now moment and creating of it, though even this thinking as well as thinking about a “me” in time with problems, a fictional measuring stick as to where I should be in my life, etc, etc, are not being recreated. The aliveness of desire is creator-creating-creation and is ever present. Past, future, me, are resistant thoughts to the actuality. The greatest feeling is being, not sexual stimulation...there is no actual difference, sans the believing of thoughts that there is. The sensations, sexually speaking, like that of an orgasm, are created via the apparent limitation of what you really are...always...Being. To be so radiant that you are emanating joy and love is simply to be you, or simply, to be. There is no material world to transcend, there are no states, there is only to notice the re-appearing of those thoughts, and the perpetuating of the belief in them, and the material identity it intrinsically weaves. Spirituality does sound like the journey you’re describing, in the sense you are asking questions, inspecting, oriented to what is actual and true. That you are creating reality is a much bigger picture, richer experience, and blissful actuality, than anything (including sex) therein.

@Someone here I hear ya. ? In a way, What is mental illness from nondual perspective?, is not a short order. Could be said to be the full circle of full circles. A certain actuality, or the transparency of seeing through ‘understanding’ “itself” is in order. Seeing through something, is seeing prior to something, and only ‘direct experience’ is this. But I digress, as I trust I am sounding crazier by the word!

@Martin123 Lol. I’m not angry at all. I’m filled with love for you. You aren’t “feeling my energy” at all. You’re feeling your thoughts, beliefs, and perspectives.

No worries. Love ya.

But it is! The first believed thought it is not is actually delusion. I am not saying “you” are delusional. It’s not an attribute, it’s an appearance. No! There is no more ‘knowledge’ than there is a me or a sun. No. It’s literally empty! Nothing! It’s under, if anything. Not over. Take ‘me’ out of the thinking. Don’t look for ‘my point’, look at what is pointed to. Yes. I’ll return to a more comfortable lens. I ‘get it’. No worries.

@Martin123 You made the accusation, and now you’re spinning it as if my comments are the problem for you. This is a rather complete ignoring of taking responsibility for the accusations you make, and is possibly the most hypocritical toxicity I have seen. I will of course respect your wish not to be confronted by anyone who points this out to you, no problem.

First the ‘sanity’ of what is actual, must be seen. Clearing of existence is most fundamental. Then how mental disorders are created, or, ‘what they are’ can be seen. If there is delusion in the lens, how delusion is being created, appearing, isn’t clearly seen. If there isn’t, it is effortlessly seen as it stands out. Then there is what existence really is. Then there is the mistaking of the content in term of mental illness as characteristic of a finite mind and missing the mirror of the environment, or you might say ‘what we’re doing with this place’ and the effect it has on the “reincarnating”, or “swirly pools” of the finite minds, or ‘us’.

I can only offer that it is not semantical, technical nor deflection. Awareness is not per se ‘down to earth’ when the subject matter is mental illness. There is no intention of distorting a discussion. To say there is you as a separate self is nonsensical, to say you are me in the understanding of how this is apparent is sanity. Yes I’m laughing, yet there is no mindset of productivity.

@Martin123 You publicly accused someone of something they didn’t do. You do this quite often. Whereas you rationalize this, I would just apologize and admit I was wrong. Of course, it’s up to you. Doesn’t make any difference to me. Also, you employ character attacks where you are unable to think things through, and or to think for yourself. It is a deep projection when you are doing this, and you are doing it unconsciously.

‘Memory of a direct experience’ is a misnomer. More accurately, ‘that you assume’. Missing the actuality of direct experience, such as believing in ‘memories’, and assuming on behalf of what other people think or feel, is not ‘outside’ of neuroticism, to be ‘seeing’ from the vantage prior to the actuality of ‘mental illness’. Again, nothing ‘wrong’ with that, but when you say that, it is for you. To say there is a sun is nonsense (no offense). The confusion is in the beliefs which support I am not the sun / that there is a sun, and that there is language and that it is being used.

@Someone here You could think of it this way... if one is not fully aware of the actuality that one is dreaming / being “the sun”, or, if one is not ‘seeing’, ‘experiencing’ from prior to the concentration of the finite mind...how can one see how ‘mental illness’ is constructed? One ‘holding’ the thought of it, isn’t in the same as one aware of the actuality of it. Another way to say that is there is no physical self or reality, and that is where all the trouble begins. How could one ‘walk back’ (with respect to the mind of another) out of the states of creation of the finite mind, without already being behind it?

@Gesundheit There is no sun in reality.

@Gesundheit Sun is a thought, a label. The ‘sun’ is existence.