Nahm

But it is! The first believed thought it is not is actually delusion. I am not saying “you” are delusional. It’s not an attribute, it’s an appearance. No! There is no more ‘knowledge’ than there is a me or a sun. No. It’s literally empty! Nothing! It’s under, if anything. Not over. Take ‘me’ out of the thinking. Don’t look for ‘my point’, look at what is pointed to. Yes. I’ll return to a more comfortable lens. I ‘get it’. No worries.

@Martin123 You made the accusation, and now you’re spinning it as if my comments are the problem for you. This is a rather complete ignoring of taking responsibility for the accusations you make, and is possibly the most hypocritical toxicity I have seen. I will of course respect your wish not to be confronted by anyone who points this out to you, no problem.

First the ‘sanity’ of what is actual, must be seen. Clearing of existence is most fundamental. Then how mental disorders are created, or, ‘what they are’ can be seen. If there is delusion in the lens, how delusion is being created, appearing, isn’t clearly seen. If there isn’t, it is effortlessly seen as it stands out. Then there is what existence really is. Then there is the mistaking of the content in term of mental illness as characteristic of a finite mind and missing the mirror of the environment, or you might say ‘what we’re doing with this place’ and the effect it has on the “reincarnating”, or “swirly pools” of the finite minds, or ‘us’.

I can only offer that it is not semantical, technical nor deflection. Awareness is not per se ‘down to earth’ when the subject matter is mental illness. There is no intention of distorting a discussion. To say there is you as a separate self is nonsensical, to say you are me in the understanding of how this is apparent is sanity. Yes I’m laughing, yet there is no mindset of productivity.

@Martin123 You publicly accused someone of something they didn’t do. You do this quite often. Whereas you rationalize this, I would just apologize and admit I was wrong. Of course, it’s up to you. Doesn’t make any difference to me. Also, you employ character attacks where you are unable to think things through, and or to think for yourself. It is a deep projection when you are doing this, and you are doing it unconsciously.

‘Memory of a direct experience’ is a misnomer. More accurately, ‘that you assume’. Missing the actuality of direct experience, such as believing in ‘memories’, and assuming on behalf of what other people think or feel, is not ‘outside’ of neuroticism, to be ‘seeing’ from the vantage prior to the actuality of ‘mental illness’. Again, nothing ‘wrong’ with that, but when you say that, it is for you. To say there is a sun is nonsense (no offense). The confusion is in the beliefs which support I am not the sun / that there is a sun, and that there is language and that it is being used.

@Someone here You could think of it this way... if one is not fully aware of the actuality that one is dreaming / being “the sun”, or, if one is not ‘seeing’, ‘experiencing’ from prior to the concentration of the finite mind...how can one see how ‘mental illness’ is constructed? One ‘holding’ the thought of it, isn’t in the same as one aware of the actuality of it. Another way to say that is there is no physical self or reality, and that is where all the trouble begins. How could one ‘walk back’ (with respect to the mind of another) out of the states of creation of the finite mind, without already being behind it?

@Gesundheit There is no sun in reality.

@Gesundheit Sun is a thought, a label. The ‘sun’ is existence.

Infinite can not know finite. Delusion isn’t there like sanity isn’t there.

@EmptyVase The hierarchy of perspectives is known via the resonance in feeling throughout the body. It doesn’t involve anyone else.

@Martin123 You blatantly (or rather, said he ‘blatantly victim shamed’) accused someone of victim shaming (Leo) who explained that he did not, and though I might have missed it, I didn’t see any reply from you. I’m curious, have you realized you were wrong? If so, was Leo the victim in this scenario...does that make you ‘a villain’? We’re you victim shaming him? Also, does it occur to you an apology is appropriate if this is the case? Just curious.

If nonexistence refers to thought, thought doesn’t exist. What reason? What is it’s usage relative to? If the sun is said to exist at all, existence is a relative property attributed to the sun. Does existence have an opposite? Can existence be relative? Does appearance and disappearance determine existence? Does existence appear & disappear? Wouldn’t that be saying existence is relative to appearance?

@justfortoday It’s a tiny nuance so to speak. I don’t disagree at all with what you said there. Referencing your other thread... in the same way there is no mover, though relativity ‘implies’ or make it seem like there is, there is no liver, death, or relativity.

Is there an actuality of nonexistence? Not the word, but what it points to.

@Someone here Is non existence a thought about not existing, or a reference to direct experience of non existence? And if interested, how does that relate to the op / topic?

No need to realize what happens after death, only that there is no liver of lives.

???

@justfortoday Very cool. This can also be noticed while driving. If you look at the road or buildings etc it is very convincing you are moving. But when you look at the interior of the vehicle, relatively, it’s clear that you are not actually moving. Then you can extrapolate one more step prior in seeing that the body is like the buildings.

@electroBeam Shift from the arising perspectives to breathing from the stomach, feeling into what the energy is in a literal direct sense.

Joy / Happiness does not have an opposite, but thinking makes it so.

What would you have done as the cop instead?