Nahm

In this case, you’re referring to an idea of nothing, but if you inspect that idea, there isn’t actually an idea of nothing ‘there’ at all. Nothing can not ‘help you’, nothing is you. It’s not really a matter of ‘proof’, but of expression, willingness, earnestness, and interest. Direct experience vs believing thoughts as labels is key. The ‘ruminating brain’, as a concession, is fueled by resistance of feeling, which is essentially unwillingness to express. The brain is literally made of unconditional love, and the discord is the focusing on conditions. Analogously, it’s like having eaten misunderstanding innocently, and yet being reluctant to allow it up and out, to release and understand. The perspective that someone ‘attains’ enlightenment is the materialist paradigm, or, consciousness being a product of some thing or someone separate from consciousness. It’s reducing enlightenment to possession, a thing you get or acquire (attain). Those are yet-to-be-inspected-thoughts, not post-inspection actuality. Someone doesn’t ‘attain’ or ‘become’ something or some state, the true nature is already the Truth. Seeking enlightenment is a misnomer. Inspecting what is actual, what is fundamentally true, genuinely, authentically, honestly, is the way....to what is true, or, truth.

@Endangered-EGO Awesome. ?? Expression (rather than any suppression, repression or bypassing) really is the key. What makes it tough is the thoughts which arise about past or future can be kinda ‘attention getting’. Keep relaxing the body over and over, gently focusing on breathing from the stomach. Allow feeling to come up and out, without resisting how you feel. Allow thoughts to come and go, also without resisting. It’s all so worthwhile, as a big dose of what you do want typically follows such allowing & releasing. Also, kinda ‘btw’... the emotional scale is quite natural. Notice how you went from anger to blame ?? and then naturally mindfully to contentment ??. It can function as a guide, a scaffolding, so we express purposefully with some rhyme or reason behind it, thus lowering the ‘getting lost in the thought story’ potential. Excited for you man, Godspeed. Don’t forget about that dreamboard. ?

That’s the veiling story, the one of you in time, the separate physical object, the idea of you & yesterday. Is it necessary? Questions can be asked in more clarity without a story influencing, coloring. Liberation. Notice the distinction of identification, or, identifying, of what happens & what happen to you. Exactly, it isn’t. As you so poignantly said, the discord was felt with the thought, not the past. How offensive, perhaps. Yet, to...who? No one ever hires a lawyer for more suffering. If the question were how do I create a website, you’d read, understand, directly experience, and create that. No biggie, no need to reinvent the wheel, millions have already done this. Or, conversely, one could focus on what doesn’t feel good, not look into better feeling, remain ignorant, misunderstanding, and creating more suffering. Similarly, ‘how do I let go, express, move forward’... ‘how do I create reality’?...The emotional scale. Always up to you. Keep expressing your way up the scale, imo. Direct experience: A thought. Not a past. If there’s an argument at this end of this convo, it is in your favor. Well being, liberation, alignment as one, not two (awareness & idea of you). Indeed, blame is a higher vibration than anger. With so much desire to create, why stop there? Don’t fear or resist feeling, allow, feel, express, clear it out. ‘For me’ is a textbook example of the thoughts which come and go freely in meditation. Nothing implies anything is “your fault”... sans a thought. Meditation could be said to be sitting, breathing, and doing basically nothing but relaxing, emptying, letting go, clearing out. How can that be the cause of anything? Perhaps there is resistance, in the sense, a refusal to express and or let go? If however meditation is deeply believed to be harmful, simply don’t meditate. Try something else. You might find there are a lot of ‘something else’s’ to address or fix a problem, which circle back to focus and feeling, and the letting go of the perspective that there is a problem.

There is no duality here, but thought makes it so. @How to be wise What if they let those discordant judgmental dualistic thoughts go? What remains? If enlightenment got moved to a mountain top or something, I must’ve missed the memo.

@allislove That’s it. ♥️

Keep in mind the point of experience, is experience. Thoughts arise and there is some sifting & sorting, some believing here and there and some dispelling of beliefs as well, but unconditional infinite intelligence doesn’t undermine it’s own intention, which is ‘your’ experience. This, right now. Not future results, but perhaps now inspirations of what this can be. Think a bit bigger picture, a few steps farther into this inquiry, desire, and or perspective. What if everyone in the class were granted the special powers of instant manifestation? How would that go? What would happen to experience? Or would you only grant such power to yourself? Think that through, how would that play out? Perhaps you could imagine such a classroom is full of your own kids. Which one do you favor with such special powers? Does this enhance or diminish experience? How does this feel? Much, all, is the way it is, because of your true nature. As above, so below. Imagine you do instantly manifest the 100% score, with no experience of studying whatsoever. Instant gratification. Then imagine what you’d instantly manifest next, and next, and next. In about five minutes you’d want experience to be precisely, perfectly, exactly, how it was before. Be most careful with the conceptual pluralizing of realities. Trust in the true nature, in feeling, intuition. Sometimes those kids tell some real whoppers. Enjoy, appreciate, relish in experience. Connect with the unconditional true nature in the bigger life’s dream picture, and make a dreamboard, in this togetherness.

@Cepzeu

You’re not alone. ??

@Flowerfaeiry

Thought, words, and all communication is bullshit in the sense it is an appearance. This is not exactly the same as intention, such as with deception, yet most bullshit and deception is the unintentional product of self deception...which basically circles back to intention, and in large part, suffering.

It does sound like a weird joke and that there isn’t enlightenment, and it’s just, this. It is this, in plain sight, nothing hidden, but... realization of this will rock your reality and turn you inside out and outside in, so no, you have not found or realized enlightenment. Enlightenment is absolutely nothing, and yet ‘it’ is not the thought, belief, concept, idea, or imagining of enlightenment. I’d suggest enlightenment lies prior to and not beyond the mind, and inspecting “regular reality” for what is actual is the way, rather than looking. It could be said to be a solid place on the path though, the realization enlightenment is not a thought, idea, belief or something you imagine. This might bring about a new perspective in regard to alignment, self & reality understanding, practices, trips, etc.

One interpretation anyways,

Imagine watching the movie Groundhog’s day, but twelve times, each time with a different actor narrating a totally different script / narration. Morgan Freeman, with a spiritual affirming narrative. A Matthew McConaughey narration where he just basically makes everything sound cooler and more interesting, etc. Then notice, it’s the same movie regardless of the narrative. You’re being you....and...some thoughts are arising. The thought might be about wether or not you’re being you, but you’re being you alright. Being yourself is not vulnerable, is the only power there is.

@Flowerfaeiry I tend to agree. Though that is what you are saying, and not what I said or am saying. Recognizing “body” is a thought is not at all disassociation, nor is it confusing, it’s clarifying because it’s true. Believing the thought “body” is a separate thing or object, (and or identifying with a thought) is utter disassociation and confusion of what is actual, oneness, nonduality, the true nature, and very confusing to the potential of understanding feeling, emotion, & perception. (All intended just as ‘pointers’ here) In response to the inquiry in the original post.... Nonduality ‘means’ not two. The questioner is directly asking about the relationship between consciousness and the body and mind, in the sentiment that infinite being needs or could need the body mind, (and is likely asking because these thoughts feels off)... while there is no such ‘thing’ as a body mind, just the thoughts, ‘body’, and ‘mind’. Things are not being denied here. ‘Things’ is a thought, a label. There are not separate things. That is true, and that is being communicated (pointed to) here. The pointing term ‘nonduality’ can also be considered in regard to the idea of a duality of ‘ultimate sense’ and ‘relative sense’. Direct experience is absolutely perfectly consistent (until it isn’t).

@longusername12345 I had a very similar experience with so many meditations ‘out there’ and wrote an explanation of what imo is the most ‘basic’ or fundamental facets of the practice that you might find easy and clarifying.

@Samuel Garcia The same applies to “enlightenment”, if thoughts were to be applied.

@Carl-Richard Great stuff. ??

@EternalDream Yep!

What does change something in yourself mean? You’re already appearing as the thoughts & as perception. So, not something you can do.... ... focus on what you want. Not in your head so to speak, but on a dreamboard in front of you. Then you are aware of what you want, consciously creating, and reality is appearing as it. Then you are aware of the gap; thoughts which are not aligned with what’s on your board. Close the gap by recognizing the guidance of feeling, and focusing on a better feeling thought. Feel the alignment as you do ? and use the emotional scale & tools of expression for any ‘stuckness’.

@AdamR95 Regarding what was ‘seen’ in satori, how many of you are there? The thoughts that don’t feel good, are not about you. They’re about an idea of you, as a separate entity and physical object in time. So they feel, off. One way to go, is ‘oh, that thought feels off because I’m literally more fucking awesome than could be comprehended’. In a loose ‘organization’ sense, I refer to these as ‘self referential thoughts’. Makes it easier to spot them...as the awareness of them.

@goldpower123 There was a belief you need to be different (inner growth) and activity which satisfied it. But the belief in the first place might not have been addressed, and so it seems it came back around again. To add a little structure around the reference, it’s like skipping contentment when using the emotional scale.

@Flowerfaeiry Not adopting a belief is not a denial of what’s believed. That is btw precisely what it means, and not sure what these should’s of teaching is. ?

@Someone here Sorry to hear that man, I really am. Definitely been ‘there’ and I don’t take it lightly on your behalf. It sounds like you’re at or near “rock bottom”, which to me is an indication things are about to change. Op...Why is reality the way it is? It’s for your experience of it. It won’t make sense any other way. How do you feel about your vision of what’s unfolding, what’s to come, where your life is headed? Could you readily rattle of a list of ten things you want to experience? If not, what about twenty things & aspects you don’t want? And do those questions also bring to mind some specific conditions, like ‘yeah but first I have to change x, y and or z.....then I can focus on what I want’. ?

@fopylo It seems the way you keep adding in a perspective to what was said, a perspective which doesn’t feel good to you, is being done consciously, on purpose. If not, reading this thread would be a pretty easy way to become aware of it.

The difference between survival before enlightenment and survival after enlightenment is whatever thought is currently believed to be the difference.