Scholar

All I am saying is that don't pretend like sports are in any shape or form fair. There is no fairness in sports, only the illusion to the extend to which it makes it enjoyable to us. I don't really know what you mean by reasonable. The question is fundamentally whether these divisions are real, and also what consequences they have for society at large, and whether or not there are better divisions we can construct. We live in a time in which people think gender actually exists, that is it an objective thing rather than an arbitrary classification based on what turned out to useful for us in the past.

What you say has nothing to do with gender, but certain biological factors that somewhat correlate to certain chromosomes in the body, or more apparently certain genitalia. Sports is actually a great examples. Sports inhernetly are not fair, all they really show is biological different between people. Many penis-people stand no chance against other penis-people, depending on how much testosterone their bodies for example produce. Is it fair that someone who produces far less hormones plays against someone who produces far more? There is an inherently inequality between people that is present, the fact that you have divided it by a metric like genitalia or chromosomes actually shows that you have not really chosen the actual factors that make something fair. What would be much more fair is to evaluate the physical properties of each individual. By having created these binary categories, everyone who falls out of these categories will have to just suffer the unfairness, because they will be consider part of one group when, when it would be more appropriate for them to be part of another.

I've had this hypothesis that with Spiritual Awakening or the loss of identity (and therefore the loss of a need for survival) some of the close-mindedness mechanisms fall off that are supposed to protect one believing in bullshit basically. On an emotional, and maybe even intuitive level, a non-ego individual might come to become more confident about certain things because they have no need to be uncertain or doubtful. After all, the only reason we have doubt is survival. I have observed similar things with you where it seems like you have become more gullible or have applied less critical thinking to certain things. How I thought of it was that you simply felt no need to question it, or that you maybe lacked that certain skepticism that makes one question some things. From my perspective I am still not certain whether or not one could be ultimately deluding oneself. The reason I see this is because some claims made could easily be manifested in the physical world, like Sadhguru saying he can make apples fall from a tree into his hand by will, or heal his own bones. I view the claim that these things are too subtle to be observed as pretty much bullshit. It seems that the changes in mind that reveal existential Truth might somehow compromise certain aspects to evaluate the relative world in an accurate way. I don't know what higher consciousness means if these level of delusions can persist. However at this point it doesn't seem likely that these delusions are merely something that are carried into "high consciousness", but rather a result of some of that state of mind, or a change in mind that can happen when this kind of state is achieved.

I don't agree with everything being said there, I feel like he is missing some parts of the picture, but definitely has some good key insights.

The Shadow is being projected upon the world, that is an interesting framing of what is happening The way the article is written and this topic is understood seems very much orange to me. There is a far deeper structural change going on that is causing this. What has changed is basically the way people interface with reality and the way they are dealing with the rapid change in the world. We are dealing with maybe the biggest societal epistemological problem ever, the systems we have used to create a shared intersubjective reality are falling away. What the article did is basically present a few superficial symptoms, but is not even hinting at the actual cause of what is going on.

Beauty is a perception, like pain or warmth. Phenomena are not beautiful, rather beauty is it's own phenomena which the mind creates.

This thread is a collection of actual real life examples, whether on an individual level or on a collective level, how a particular level of existences creates limitations, which then in turn cause suffering, which in turn causes an attraction to the next level of existence. Each level of existences can handle a variety of problems, but each level of existences creates new problems for which it is not yet equipped to tackle. I will start with the example of the current evolution of the platform Twitch from orange to green. The effects the orange level of existence has on mental health is profoundly negative, worse for orange is that it has no clue how to remedy these effects. It is helpless because it views problems to be primarily individualistic. Orange views mental health as a problem of the individual, a dysfunction of the individual. It classifies the individual, attributes disorders to it and then seeks to find ways to remedy these dysfunctions. This approach is fundamentally flawed because it does not recognize that the mental health disorders we are facing are a collective problem, not an just an individualistic one. The way to actually heal people most people is to create community, be more empathetic, be less materialistic. Orange has no tools to engage with these problems on a collective level. With true and healthy community many of current mental health disorders would never arise in the first place. For us who understand the Spiral there is a key insight that we have to integrate in the way we approach the healing of our communities and individuals. Spiral Evolution happens when the limitations of a level of existence become obvious to those residing in that level of existence. This is where someone like Dr. K can come in and help people emerge from their level of existence to the next. This is essential, because as "Spiral Wizards" we can waste a lot of time trying to convince and make people evolve who have not yet experienced the limitations of their own level of existence. This will not happen, it is a wasted effort and an ineffective allocation of energy. What we must do is identify the communities and individuals who are at the ripe level of suffering, this is how we can create a healthy and swift evolution. When the ripe level of suffering is reached it can sometimes take a single individual to guide the people to the next stage. After a streamer named reckful took his life, the twitch community started to take the issue of mental health much more serious. Dr. K is basically taking people from orange and guiding them to green. It is a good example for why Life Purpose has to stay flexible, the world is a flexible place and will need new and dynamic solutions for each newly emerging problem. Even a few years ago this conversation could have not happened, but now everyone is listening carefully and very curious as to what he has to say. People even embrace his Eastern Spiritual concepts, which is surprising (or not to those who understand the spiral) because they are gamers. The suffering combined with the recognition of their own ignorance is the cause of open mindedness for stage orange.

This is because our flaw as a species is not our lack of intelligence, but our lack of emotional development. We are governed by our emotions, we are limited by our evolutionary legacy. We have not yet taken control, we have not yet developed autonomy. We basically have not yet grown up. We are children with too much power. And children with too much power only learn when their ignorance comes back to bite them in the ass.

Having a conversation is not equal to arguing, he is an integral thinker so he might be receptive to new ideas. Other than that you can educate other integral thinkers who would listen to that conversation. The purpose might not even become clear, or unfold, until the conversation has happened, so to ask why might not be the right question to ask.

@Leo Gura Can you not set up a conversation with WIlber, or maybe get in contact with the Integral Life people. How will we expand the thinking if we just keep it to ourselves? https://www.youtube.com/user/IntegralNaked

I don't remember what the name was, but there was this guy who claimed he came from the future and said that basically nations don't exist anymore and that there are these cities of a certain size where socialism was able to function. He claimed that they learned that if the population was too high, socialism wasn't able to function properly because societal cohesion would basically fall away, there had to be a restriction because too many people would lead to people being unable to form a strong community, which socialism is necessary for as it requires a connection to community, a desire to do something for the community out of your own free will. He also said that each city had basically an AI that would govern that city. There were more details but I forgot. It was a long time ago that I heard that and when I did I obviously thought that guy was crazy. I still think he was, but the scenario or vision of the future is something that doesn't seem that unrealistic to me anymore.

I don't know, seeing animal cruelty would definitely be more traumatic for me than being put into a simulated situation myself.

Next step: Put every child into a cage in which they can only kneel in and not even turn around, leave them in there for a few hours in the dark. Maybe even pretend like they are being slaughtered and eaten, showing some obese person eating and enjoying a hamburger made of their classmates flesh. That would make people more empathic real quick. Sadly most people never experience terror and subjugation, which is why we live in a society in which it is viewed as almost completely non-problematic. So much so that people are willing to do this to their brothers and sisters for something like trivial health benefits or energy levels.

What we need is a round table talk of all the enlightened people. It has to happen.

This is what happens when there are no consequences. The american citizens fail to face their own responsibility and you will have to suffer the consequences. When you let the wolves rule you don't be surprised when they turn their teeth on you some day. We are at a stage in human evolution in which any selfishness will only be addressed if the self faces consequences. People will not stop exploiting others until they get heart disease, until the oceans start to rise, until their children are killed in school shootings. Their lack of empathy will be punished in the only way they have yet come to understand. Humanity without empathy can only change through suffering, and thankfully nature is very good at making us suffer for our ignorance and apathy. To understand suffering means to understand your place in this world, your contribution towards the evolution of this world. God makes you suffer precisely because he loves you so much.

I wonder how much Leo has investigated this, because a lot of what he describes sounds like he has some gut issue. Maybe not his only issue, but it would certainly explain why it gets worse over time. He seems to have difficulty breaking down oxalates or something. I am struggling with similar issues and they seem to be getting worse aswell as time passes. Thyroid and gut health also seem to be linked: https://thefatigueclinic.com/2019/10/thyroid-and-the-gut/ https://www.wellandgood.com/thyroid-gut-health/

Isn't it interesting that Italy and Italians seem to be so good at establishing and thriving in Stage Blue institutions and structures? The roman empire and the vatican are the best examples for that. But even italians isolated from that, in terms of the classical Mafia, seem to just thrive in that kind of mindset and environment. It's like they have just this hidden talent in building these structures. Could this be cultural? I wonder if there are other cultures and peoples that tend to be good at thriving and establishing certain levels of existence. Has anyone here given this some thought? What is it that makes Italy so different to others that they are just so good at this? It seems like it must root back all the way to the beginnings of rome.

It is not about whether they create Stage blue institutions, obviously every country has to as it once transitioned through blue, or is currently doing so. I think you misunderstand the inquiry of my question.

RIP Remember guys not to be sedentary for too long and get your regular exercise in. If you sit a lot do some exercises every hour or so, it will increase your productivity anyways. Also keep yourself hydrated!

How do we verify whether Spiral Dynamics is an accurate model? Did anyone here look at the actual research done by don beck and clare graves? It seems to me that it is hard to make the case that SD is a scientific model.

Funny how that last one is called "Authoritarian" with him saying that subjectivity and intuition seems to play a much bigger role, and that in a way they become more tribalistic. To me it looks like it is describing what Leo has been transitioning to the past few years. Leo has in essence abandoned ideas of outside authority and is now embracing his own, with help of his subjective experience and intution. He is also much more harsh with people who are creating an environment which he doesn't like. He is actively excluding certain people from his group, which in a sense could be said to be tribalistic behaviour.

Even if they thought people followed an evolution akin to spiral dynamics, they could still deny that being further up the spiral is actually more healthy and desirable. That would be much harder to prove in terms of scientific means. This would mean we could call it science, but not established scientific fact. It seems like embracing the model like we do before it has actually been tested enough to be established to be accurate seems to be unjustifiable from the perspective of scientific reasoning. We can call it scientific data, but we cannot call it scientific fact. It seems like it is more than a scientific hypothesis, but it is not yet a firm and robust scientific theory. But for even this to be established we would need the actual research. Is this available somewhere online, because I couldn't find it when I was looking.