Scholar

He comes off very sleazy and narcissistic, especially in that recent debate with Stephen Woodford and the aftermath of that.

Why are you not using Spiral Dynamics here? Populism is basically a reaction to excessive aspects of orange, which makes people retreat to blue or progress to green. Obviously someone at blue orange will not be voting for someone with orange green values. I don't understand what you mean by "true populist".

You can do whatever you want, I am just here to reveal your devirly. I wasn't addressing factory farming nor even veganism. I was specifically addressing the way your ego is operating. I don't really think a discussion on veganism will be productive at all with someone like you because your identity is too constricted. You fundamentally cannot see Soul. It is not a simple fact. You are falling into the trap of the ego. You have no clue why you value humans more than animals, you simply claim that the reason why is because "humans are capable of more good in the world". The reason why I am showing you this in another context is so you can see that this is not at all the reason why you care about humans more than animals. It is a story your mind came up with so that it could continue with it's behaviour. You are not a perfectly rational being that one day decided that it will value other things by virtue of that capacity to achieve good in the world. Instead you have an emotional attachment, a configuration of identity, which then you rationalize by whatever means possible. This is fundamentally because of a lack of self-love. That which you judge others for is present in yourself, you simply hide it really well. If you think you do not judge anyone, watch a video of a human being tortured by a sadist. Unless you have abnormal psychology or are truly enlightened beyond humanity, you will judge that person deeply. And you will fail to recognize that you are judging yourself, that you are watching someone do something which you are doing to others aswell. Think about a racist who says black people are less worthy of life than white people because black people are less capable of creating good. The reason why the racist eventually has to abandon his position is because if there is a white human on the level of capacity to create goodness as what he perceives a black person to be, he has to agree that one of his ingroup is the same as one of the outgroup. This is really basic identity stuff, I don't know why so many people here fail to see this. Notice how your mind is creating a convinient example to escape the true horrors that your mindset would actually reduce to. We are not talking about a vegetable here, we are not talking about killing a disable person vs a healthy productive person. What we are talking about is killing a human on the level of ability to generate goodness as a cow, an ant or any other being, for nothing but your perception that you feel like veganism is not healthy to you. How much effort have you put into veganism, how many alternatives have you considered? And now ask yourself how much effort would you put into your diet if it wasn't a cow that you were killing, but instead a mentally handicapped person? Not a vegetable, a simple mentally handicapped person on the level of productivity of a cow. A cow can play, it can have children. It can show affection. It suffers, it feels loss. Imagine there was a 4 year old that would stay a 4 year old forever. Would you sacrifice that 4 year old to have optimal health? How much effort would you put into not killing that child? How much effort would you put into become a vegan if that was the only alternative? The fact that you have to think things through shows that you are operating from a post-hoc rationalization, an emotional (egoic attachment) position that you are trying to sell as anything but that. This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Again, listen to your emotions. Watch an ISIS video and come back to tell us how you feel. If your feelings tell you that "He is just doing the best he can!", then your identity is actually evolved. If not, you are exhibiting ego, and your entire game of relativism is nothing but a tool for your ego. This is the fundamental problem with this kind of ideological relativism. We are talking about the Absolute Nature of existence, when you apply this to the relative world without bias, you will not be human anymore. Your positions will look like horror to any ego, because that is precisely what the ego is. It is the father of lies, the judge of Perfection. You are applying this relativism only in contexts in which it is convinient to your ego. Again ask Leo what the difference between exploiting a cow and exploiting a human is. Ask him if there is a difference between stepping on an ant and the jewish holocaust. It is funny to me how the ego appeals to the Absolute. You are playing with fire. If you can suffer on the cross and forgive all sinners, then I will accept your moral relativism. The Absolute is so radical that there are things Leo will deliberately not say to not look like a complete monster. It is even worse. It's not a position of Leo, but it is actually the Absolute Truth. That Truth will look like horror to any ego if it truly saw it's full breath.

Interesting how you hide your biased position behind a fact that you haven't even established. So far the human species has caused the sixth mass extinction and is causing suffering on a scale never seen before. What exactly do you mean by the capability to do good and postively change the world? What about a bee, which is essential for our ecosystems. Say that we could prove that a bee had more capability to do good than humans had, would you then say bees were to be more worth in your eyes than humans? And most importantly what do you say to a human who is not capable of doing anything positive, like a severely handicapped person? Are they to you less equal? Are they less worth of moral consideration than a healthy and productive human being? Can you see how your own discrimination, your own bias, if applied in the human context would lead to things you would find appalling? Tell your handicapped brothers and sisters that they are worth as much as an animal because they, in a relative sense, are not as capable of doing as much good and positively changing the world, not to forget that the goodness you have defined here is tailored so that it would specifically only apply to humans. The only way you could bypass that is by giving them extrinsic value, reveal your speciesism or by admitting that animals are worthy of moral consideration aswell. You are not very morally evolved, beyond a basic idea of relativism and subjectivism it seems like you cannot see the true consequences of your judgements. I want you to be very careful here and observe your own bias, your own ego, your own limitation of identity playing out and seeking arguments to defend itself, instead of developing a truly fair sense of morality. One day you might look at an animal and see yourself in it, when you give up the boundary you have set up to defend your egoic structures. Ego is survival and you are defending your survival. You aren't different at all from a slave owner, just that instead of race you use speciesism to justify your exploitation. Go and ask Leo if he thinks there is a difference between the exploitation of animals and the exploitation of humans. Go ahead and ask him about what is Good. If you can admit that human slavery is good and okay to do, then I will buy that you have abandoned all ideas of survival. Otherwise you are a slave of the ego, a slave to a limitation set upon yourself by the restrictions of survival, which by definition is more primitive than an ego which has dissolved that boundary and includes more of Other as Self. Say that there were no animals around, would you honestly tell me that you would breed mentally handicapped people and eat them if it meant for your health to be optimal? Would you walk around to someone saying they found that disgusting that they were just expressing their opinion? Most people on this forum use moral relativism as a tool to justify their egos needs. Most of you have no idea of the consequences of understanding true relativity. True Relativity means that raping and torturing a baby human is just as Good as exploiting a cow for milk or stepping on an ant. This is what the devil does, it seels it's own Devilry as some higher spiritual perspective, when it is not. Ironically you show no capacity for self-sacrifice, when that is a hallmark of spiritual development. Rather, you use spiritual concepts to justify your own survival and the suffering you inflict on others.

Suppose human slave-holder is stage turquoise, would you accept that? Suppose human rape and torture is stage coral, would you accept that?

Compassion and ideas/perceptions of fairness can be seen as egoic structures that serve a purpose for survival, it depends on how you look at things.

This is why I do not particularly like the approach Leo has for teaching spiritual development. He is very transparent and blunt with what the process is, how it will evolve and where it is supposed to arrive at. This leaves the information to be very vulnerable to be hijacked by the ego or to be used in any way the ego thinks is correct. His teachings are very big on deconstruction. Whilst deconstructing he is also constructing ideology that is intended to be used as scaffolding to aid the individual on their journey. Combine that with the fact that there is noone to actually guide the individual with this information and you have a recipe for disaster. Leo's teachings are more like the map of an explorer, who explains to you in detail what you can expect, how the terrain looks and so forth. This is why he has to be so detailed in his explanations, because he must give you the necessary information for you to then explore the terrain yourself and arrive at any given destination. It is in the end your responsibility to do the journey, there is no guide, only the map. You can imagine that this can lead to people getting lost, because even if they have the map, they still might not be skillful enough to do the journey by themselves. Combine that with the fact that the map Leo provides is not yet completed and that actually any individuals will start the journey with different pieces of the map (watching a few videos and basing their decisions on those rather than having watched all of them) and you can see how much problems someone who takes the journey might face. Other practices heavily involve teachers who do not simply give you a map, but rather guide you through the process. A zen master will not tell you everything about the process, the evolution and where you will arrive. That isn't necessary because they are there to guide you. They can walk through the terrain with you and help you whenever you get lost or face an obstacle. Leo is giving the map to the ego, so in the end the ego is free to do devilry with it. Ultimately Leo has no control over this, he is relying on you to be as autonomous as he is. This works for a certain kind of person, but for many others this can be dangerous. From what I can tell you have deconstructed certain parts of your ego far too soon. You have not developed a healthy ego, which is something you build over time. There needs to be a balance between deconstruction and construction. How will you have motivation to meditate, do yoga and so forth if you have deconstructed your motivation to do anything? This clearly will not work. You cannot just deconstruct any given part and expect to be able to build a wonderful castle. This requires deep knowledge of the ego in the first place, which you do not have. Instead of deconstruction, explore more of who you are. Don't judge yourself for any given thing you desire or hate. I have seen the deep dysfunction in many of the users on this forum, many of whom pride themselves in their deconstruction of things like compassion and fairness. They have a very myopic and simplistic view of spiritual evolution. They think everything should be deconstructed and let go of, they cannot see the beauty and importance in the evolution of egoic structures and what they allow us to do. Allow yourself to become aware of yourself and who you are without judging whether you are being "spiritual", "highly evolved" or "egoic". Just observe, appreciate it and understand it. You first understand, then you might deconstruct. Because if you deconstruct before you understand, you will never understand. Some things do not need to be deconstruct. This bastardization of spirituality as being nothing but a deconstruction machine to me is deeply dysfunctional. Spirituality is equally about creativity as it is about dissolution. And if in doubt, always choose love over hatred.

Notice that mathematicians have to look out to not accidentally divide by zero. Notice how strange that is and what happens when they do so. This is like the ego avoiding the underlying truth of Union, because if it were to embrace it, it's survival would collapse as it would be revealed as an illusion. The ego is basically an elaborate system of trying to avoid division by zero. Even the words they use. They made it illegal to divide by zero, like they made it illegal to take 5-MeO-DMT.

That's amazing. Think about it. If you divide by Zero, Math cannot make sense because every number is potentially every other number. Every number is unmanifested, every number is in perfect union with every other number. Division by Nothing, divided by Nothing. To make sense is to Divide, to manifest is to divide. Ignore that and you can have math, you can have manifestation, you can have every individual thing. But Divide by Nothing and you shall perish into Nothingness, because everything will become everything, which is nothingness. https://www.math.utah.edu/~pa/math/0by0.html As Leo said, Paradox is a feature, not a glitch. Of course all integers are equal, of course your whole number system will collapse if you truly embrace it fully. This is it's nature, the Illusion. It can only be upheld so long as you do not allow for Division by Nothing, Undividedness. You cannot escape the breadcrumbs, you can only deny them, as the mathematicians do. God = Division by Zero Look at this, it's just poetic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_by_zero Almost reads like a religious text if you ask me. Of course division by zero cannot be defined, because it is no thing.

Or it is an egoic reaction of you, who does view animals as inferior and less worth of moral consideration than humans. You are so biased that you think it's worse to show children how animals suffer than causing the suffering to the animals itself. The only way to change people is to show them what is going on, words are certainly not enough. What about the families in the slaughterhouses? What about the countless of mothers whose children are stolen from them so a human child can drink some milk? Your bias and ignorance is causing incomprehensible suffering.

Seems to me like you haven't been authentic in this relationship from the start, this is why it's a terrible idea. And also you might be trying to justify why everything was terrible now that you have given up the relationship, to reassure yourself it was the right choice. That's all low consciousness. Simply observe how much your ego is flailing about, this is an oppurtunity to grow.

Not sure if this is the right category to post this in but I couldn't find anyone that fit. Is there a dark theme for the forum, because the white background is really bright especially at night. It attracts all the little critters to the screen.

Thanks it works.

I've seen the movie, it does seem to be correlated to concepts of the ego. For the ego, enlightenment is death and therefore the most scary thing there is, but once the ego is dead and surrenders it is beautiful. That was basically the theme of the movie. Whether or not it was intentional I don't know.

Everyone survived as far as I know.

Just so you guys can realize how dangerous it can be for the cops: https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/hb2lq1/drunk_driver_shoots_cops_then_drives_away/

And more importantly, not everyone exposing cops or police brutality and murder is stage green. Most people on the streets are far from fully imtegrating stage green, not even close. There are some aspects of green emerging, many of them in unhealthy ways. There is a tendency to look at spiral dynamics in a very simplistic way, as if there was no nuanced. A lot of western people have even problems integrating stage blue and orange in a healthy way, let alone green. Just because someone is against discrimination does not mean they have fully integrated green, nor orange, nor blue. Most people are a mix between all of them, lacking in aspects in all of them and having developed many dysfunctions in all of them.

How can we create systemic change with fear? How can we expect the governments to change if we ourselves are driven by fear? Do you not see that when you tell a person to fear the police, when you show him something that makes him fear the police, that this is the result? When you give a victim a narrative of victimhood, what will that do? Will that make him fearful or loving? Will it damage him or heal him? Narrative is everything, it can be empowering or crippling. You can decide what you choose for your fellow brothers and sister. Fear cannot create change towards the Good, because fear is that which resists the Good. It is that which cannot accept and cannot love. How do you expect consciousness to increase if that by which you seek to increase it is that which blinds you from seeing the Truth? Fear is the very reason why any of this is happening, if you continue to choose fear it will divide not unify us. People are understanding from a place of fear and fear shall be that which they see. People are protesting from a place of fear and fear shall be that which they get. Why are you taking this dream so seriously if you claim not to be asleep? Why is it that fear motivates you when you claim to see Love?

What do you guys think? Sounds a little conspiratorial to me. Black magic vs White magic, world about to go into chaos etc. Why do gurus have this tendency for end of the world scenarios? Is this to be taken seriously?

I get very skeptical of teachers who start predicting apocalypses. I guess we will see in a year if he stands to be corrected. I don't consider this the same at all.

He is making clear statements about the relative world with a lot of confidence, not just some vague predicting of the end a period ala the maya calender. It seems like you are being too charitable as far as his position goes. Did you actually watch the video I linked?

Leo was posting his stuff lately so I don't know what's going on there.

Have you seen the video on slaughterhouse workers that I linked here on this forum once? Animals cruelty and killing has quite a strong correlation to violence towards humans. There is a fundamental reason for this. And this reason is that the animals are much more similar to you than your disciminating mind will allow you to see. You might not be capable of recognizing the individuality and consciousness of the pig and see the same as that of a child, because this would terrify you. It would terrify you what we do to children. Whilst we like to use the differences between us and animals to justify killing and enslaving them, it will never be the case that our deep commonalities will dissappear. The true reasons why you care about your own suffering and that of those you love is present in pigs as much as any human being. Therefore, the only reason why you can do to a pig what you cannot do to a human is because of a label you have put upon him. And changing that label is much easier than you think.

It's not sci-fi, it's fantasy.

This is all about narrative. The United States has chosen a narrative of division instead of unification. I think for now you will become more divided, unless you all actively engage in creating a narrative that unifies you into a greater purpose. Don't forget that the easier way to look past out differences is having a unifying goal. The absence of a strong and robust narrative within the America Story is one of the main reasons why you are losing and falling back into a mentality of self-absorption.