Scholar

No, that's not true, that's not how any of this works Leo. How can you be saying this when you studied the model so much. Stage orange people can have a wide range of ideals. I mean, look at stage red people, they had communist ideals, does that mean they were stage green? No, they obviously were not. Hasan is actually spreading his own bastardized version of stage Green values, as he keeps avoiding personal responsibility. That is one of the biggest hallmarks of stage green. The difference between someone like Vaush/Hasan and someone who is actually grounded in stage green is that when you tell them they are responsible for the collective state and have a moral obligation to do something about it, the person grounded in stage green will feel in their core that responsibility. They will be grounded in that. Someone at stage orange will look at factory farms and go like "Yes that's bad but it's not my problem, we have to change society! Leave my individual choices alone!". Someone at stage green will look at factory farms and feel personally responsible for it. "Oh shit that's bad, what am I doing? I am creating these farms, I need to stop!". Same goes for something like creating a cooperative. Hasan has easily the wealth and the social power to create wonderful things in the world that would contribute positively and practically to showcasing the ideals of socialism. But he has no interest in that, because he feels no collective obligation whatsoever. He is at the core an individualist, which is why he behaves the way he does and why when confronted about this by people who are actually at stage green, he will throw his hands in the air and say "You can't expect a socialist to enslave himself to the system! We all live under capitalism therefore anything goes!". The guy is filthy rich, he is one of the very few people who is NOT enslaved by capitalism, he is in the position to actually benefit his community greatly in actually practical ways. But he is not interested in doing that whatsoever, what is on his mind are pornstars. That's what tells me his actual values. Just because someone dogmatically believes in the virtues of Jesus Christ doesn't mean they are at stage coral or whatever. Usually it means they are at stage blue.

You are missing the point. It is not about owning a house, it is about where your values are grounded in. Hasan isn't doing anything to live out stage green values other than presenting them in the most stage orange way possible. He is literally just talking about them and making tons of money that he then uses exclusively for his personal benefit. Someone who is actually centered in stage green wouldn't be interested in owning a 3$M house in LA while fucking pornstars, and wearing expensive brand-name clothes. That is utterly cringe to people who are actually grounded in stage green. Your own lack of authentic stage green seems to make you blind to how people at that stage actually work, and what the difference is between someone who adopts a few ideals and someone whose values are actually grounded in that specific stage. You have a really simplistic idea of what it means to actually be at a certain stage of development. It isn't just about Hasan donating some money so he can feel better about himself, it is about what he values. If he were actually at stage green he would value compassionate, communal living. He would be interested in wanting to be living out his ideals in practice, not just talk about them. He would look at himself and cringe at how inauthentic he is. But he doesn't, all he actually cares about is fucking pornstars, being popular and rich.

He is not stage blue in that regard but rather stage orange. He is a moral subjectivist, he doesn't say he is right, he admits that it's just his personal preference. He doesn't need to be right because morality simply is an expression of his desires.

It's so beyond pathetic that he literally alters his entire moral system just so he can justify to consume meat. He will literally accept killing/torturing tribal and mentally handicapped people if they can't reciprocate value. And one most question, if one is a subjectivist, meaning that all morality is only a description of ones desire, then it actually cannot be the case that these people are being truthful, because clearly they have constructed a conceptual framework that will allow them to engage in an even more underlying value system which is not the values they have actually proposed. This is just typical stage orange cringiness.

One really important thing to realize is that these people are not at all grounded in stage green, they are as orange as you can be. They merely adopt stage green values as an aesthetic. You can see this very well with people like Hasan who live the most stage orange life you can possibly imagine, while in a pure stage orange manner convey their supposed stage green ideals. This is why these guys are so attractive to people, because fundamentally they are stage orange, not green.

His position is that morality is subjective, therefore his only goal in life is to convert everyone with rhetoric of his value system. For individuals who cannot be convinced by rhethoric, he views it justified to do so by force, stating that he has no problem with eventually killing everyone who would be unable to agree with him or be willing to be subjugated by his personal value system, as soon as he would be in power. I think it's a position many people would somewhat agree with but Vaush made it extra spicy with the way he framed it. But he also thinks it's totally a-okay to pay for people to rape and torture infants so you can watch videos of it to jerk off to, because all consumption under capitalism is unethical and therefore individuals cannot ever be taken to be responsible for their consumption. Which is the most mindblowingly stupid position you can come up with because you simultanously say all consumption under capitalism is unethical but at the same time it's perfectly okay to engage in all consumption under capitalism. The lengths people will go to to avoid being vegan is utterly fascinating to me.

Let's pretend an industry which is responsible for deindividualizing beings to the degree where they can kill billions of them every year will ever treat them with respect, because that totally makes sense.

Trump is one of the main reasons why China has such a hatred for the US at this moment.

How does that even make sense? China is criticizing the west of a lack of value in masculinity, the entire idea is that they scoff at masculinity, so why would they poop their pants? What's happening is that the chinese government is currently pooping it's pants.

I think you are limiting yourself by holding onto an egoistic-altruism framework and choosing this one contracted lense to analyse human behaviour and the world. While this framework can be useful, it is also only one side of the coin. But more importantly it is merely a model, a model that if you engage with it by looking at it as if it were true, will shape your being and how your interact with the world. See, if you engage in compassion with an attitude that it will serve yourself, you will never have true compassion, you will never have a true concern for the other. Your concern will, in practice, be fuel by your own selfishness. And while you will be simulating compassion and using the parts of your mind that generate genuine compassion, you will always remain and act from a particular sector of the mind. See, fake compassion, or self-motivated compassion, is fundamentally not the same as true compassion, true Love. It will seem the same on the surface, but it will actually play out differently in practice. Because what if you do not benefit from not torturing babies? What if you benefit greatly from it? What would you do then? Would you be able to sacrifice yourself on the cross and have the capacity to forgive those who are torturing and killing you, if all of your compassion was fundamentally of a self-serving nature, and that the way you have understood self-sacrifice was through a lense of selfishness? What you propose might be a first stepping stone for an undeveloped mind, but it will not be enough for you to truly change, or for society to truly evolve. What it takes is grounding your values in not your own self-desires and benefit, but actually beginning to recognize the nature of your true self. That your desires are serving not your contracted self, but rather that they are an extention of the greater collective. That fundamentally, you are not doing everything to serve yourself, that this is only what it seemed like. That infact, you are the one who is subservient to desire. That desire is not yours, but rather that it is impartial, serving a greater need outside of yourself. That you never were motivated to self-serve, but that you have always been motivated to serve the desires to which you are a slave. That from the beginning it was the other way around. That you did not use the world to serve you, that the world used you to serve itself, and that this is the genuine role of your being within this existence.

As long as there is the Actual, the Real, the Substantive, it shall be the case that the Groundless Ground will be inperceptive, veiled and hidden. The process of perception itself is a particular form of existence, which taints the rest of Being. The Duality between Actuality and Illusion is itself Unreal, or one particular Form or Object of Existence. But even deeper than this, the Unrealness of it is itself an Actuality which is Unreal. To make sense of this is impossible, as it is not the case that there is a Ground at all. To Ground anything means to create the Unreal. To actualize anything means to be Illusion, and to be Illusion means to be the Actual. However, far above this seeming depth (which is no depth at all), there is a Sense of Actuality, one that, as long as not dissolved, will be confused for the Absolute Reality. In fact, Absoluteness and Realness itself are part of that Sense of Actuality. Without that Sense, the Groundless Ground is revealed, and the Absolute Realness ceases to be. What is left is pure and immediate Impossibility, or what one would call Miracle. That which is beyond the Duality of Non-Duality and Duality. That which cannot be even described as Being. That which fundamentally cannot be Understood, and not even perceived. The Illusion of the Actual cannot be escaped, because the process of Escape itself is one such form of Actual Illusion. All will take place within this Circle which is grounded in Groundlessness.

You are externalizing this issue. You have asked in particular how you should solve this issue for yourself, as someone who is presumably conscious enough to understand that the culturally accepted norm that is being practiced is unjustified. Notice how you suddenly made it about convincing the masses. The question was how to convince yourself! Notice how the little devil in your mind is at work here to completely change the function of the conversation so as to avoid self-reflection. How to convince the masses is a very different topic that is seperate from the question you have initially posed. So to recontextualize: If you were a pedophile in a society where sexual torture and rape of children was the accepted norm, and that your consciousness and ethical sensitivity was above the level of the people in said society, how would you get yourself to motivate yourself to stop engaging in that kind of activity?

You should truly contemplate how a pedophile must feel, because you are in a similar situation. What would you recommend to someone who can only get sexual gratification from children? How would you want them to go about not engaging in something they know would lead to the abuse of other individuals?

Why did Joe not get vaccinated?

With not wanting to debate me you actually mean you want to grandstand with your supposed spiritual development rather than actually engage and test these ideas you have proposed, most of which fall apart even on a surface level.

But this is exactly what I mean. That's a really basic thing. All it really is is mapping the motor control activity and then translating it into the cursor moving. You have a brain activity that is clearly related to a specific outcome, and one that basically has two input dimensions (y and z axis). Now I want to see the same with thoughts. I don't think these interfaces are developing as quickly as it seems at all. I mean this is the most rudmentary thing you could possibly do, and how long did this take? They thing they will be able to save brain states in 5 years? I just don't buy it at all.

Well Musk isn't the smartest person around. I have seen absolutely no evidence of any of this being possible, let alone it having been achieved. From what I know we are at a very, very rudimentary level in terms of what we can do with this technology. Transfering thoughts to me seems like a really, really naive notion. The brain is not a computer, so to assume that all brains are standardized in a way where each ones thoughts would even make sense to someone else seems to be a big stretch. Don't forget the brain is plastic, it doesn't just have one way of doing things, and it doesn't have some sort of unifying operating system. So to me it seems like it's a typical issue of Elon Musk not being able to predict all the problems that are ahead of him. The guy is a visionary, let him have his vision, but realize that it's not reality.

I would be very skeptical of the claims that are being made here. I don't think we are nowhere near that kind of capability, not even close.

Dude you have literally created a brain rot with this mentality and ideology of yours. Any time someone engages with your arguments you fall back onto your developmental superiority, which is how you justify to yourself that you can disengage and actually not tackle any of the problems that have been pointed out to you. You don't even heed your own words which is the biggest irony of all of this. You have not once here shown any attempt to actually try to understand the perspectives of others, you presume that you already know everything, and even worse you must believe that how you have handled this actually in any shape or form contributed to harmony. My dude, you are so unconscious that you do not even realize how smug it sounds when you tell people they need to develope and that you are so much further ahead of them, and that this will have actually a completely negative effect on them rather than what you pretend you seek to achieve. Development, peace and integration my ass.

It seems like your cognition is so impaired that you haven't noticed that I am working within your own framework, so by showing me the "logical extreme" of "my" position, you have actually done this to yourself. But I see you are unable to respond to anything I am saying and just continue with your spiritual grandstanding, because that's the essence of high consciousness isn't it. Telling everyone how much more developed you are.

You shouldn't pretend like you are understanding my logic, or logic in general, if it is clearly the case that you do not. What you conclude about the little strawmans you have created in your head has nothing to do with the silliness of your own position. If you have a universal care, as you proposed, and care about both animals and plants, the logical conclusion would be to be vegan, as it reduces both the death and suffering in animals aswell as plants. How you came to conclude that this would lead you to consume humans is beyond me. But I'm sure your mind can do more mental gymnastics in an attempt to weasel itself out of this hole you have digged yourself into. Please stop with this nonsense that you are more developed than anyone, so far you have demonstrated the opposite. The fact that you unironically bring this up in a discussion to give your nonsense arguments some sort of authority is just utterly pathetic. If your reasoning can't stand on it's own, no amount of spiritual posturing will change that.

Oh man is it cringe when people do this. By the way if you care about plants you should be vegan, because guess what the animals eat we consume. Plants. People in this forum, I swear to God.

Can you provide evidence for the claims you made about most scientific data indicating a plant based diet is unhealthy?

Animal byproducts require the killing of animals, the only difference is that the animals suffer longer before they get killed. Can you provide evidence for the claim that more scientific parpers are against veganism than pro?