Scholar

Exactly, but the fundamental problem is that when CNN is inaccurate, it creates people who believe in the Joe Rogans of the world, or atleast affirms their position. People shouldn't take Joe Rogan more seriously than CNN, but sadly it just looks much worse on CNN when they get something wrong, which is what helps people like Rogan seem more credible.

Destiny makes a good point about how the media is kind of contributing to this problem by sloppy journalism or the misrepresentation of facts. This gives conspiracy theorists the opportunity to make themselves seem more credible and trustworthy. Also a great deconstruction of how utterly silly and inconsistent these positions are, even if on the surface they might seem reasonable. I think Destiny is actually doing something really valuable here by showing people how to look at these claims, how to do the research to verify them and the general thought process as to how to really get a good grasp as to what is being said. Joe Rogan is like a misinformation machine, he is utterly full of shit and doesn't realize it at all. His positions are largely genuine, but he completely lacks the ability to navigate the modern information landscape, which is precisely why he is so harmful to society despite his good intentions.

Got a 1.6 and 2.8 Though I must say the test seems very flawed. It seems like VATA types would in general score higher in terms of the "secondary psychopathy", and to even frame it this way is a bit silly. One shouldn't look at this as if psychopathy is a spectrum and you fall on a certain level of psychopathy. Rather, if you score very high on the "psychopathy score", it might be the case that you have psychopathy. So, the test doesn't actually tell you much about anything, and the questions are so vague that you could answer them differently depending on how you interpret them. It is also not clear where the difference lies between ones actual emotions and say, ones ideology. Psychopathy is a particular condition, and I wager that someone without psychopathy could easily fall high on the spectrum even if they have high empathy, simply because of the things they believe in.

The entire problem is that you are trapped within one particular substance of existence, the conceptual, and you have created a delusion that it is all of existence, or fundamental to existence. What you are doing is like trying to figure out what color existence is. That's how absurd this entire undertaking is. And once you realize it, you will laugh at it. "Is existence blue or is it red? Or maybe it's a yellow combined with a green?"

Just watching the video, it actually does a pretty good job at pointing out some of the silliness of Vaush, and looking at it from a Spiral Dynamics lense it actually is really good at showing off how he is utterly grounded in stage orange, and how a regression to red can easily happen from that place. The difficulty of post modern deconstruction is actually to not revert back to stage red, because fundamentally, it is deconstructing stage blue fundamentally. It is deconstructing objectivity, morality and so forth. To an ego mind this can be very appealling, as it allows you to just live out your power fantasies. We must note though that these power-fantasies are largely grounded in stage orange, they are not quite the same as a grounding in stage red power values. What we can basically observe in Vaush is an unhealthy manifestation of a stage blue shadow. And beyond that he just lacks much of the stage green that would be necessary for him to healthily integrate what he has learned. His it not trascending stage orange, rather he uses the little of stage green he has to even further ground himself in orange. It is a fascinating dynamic to observe. He is a really good example of someone who is dysfunctional in the way they evolve through the spiral. Such people can do huge damage to how society evolves through the spiral, as they pull people into the same kind of pathway and dysfunction, at least in the short term. In the more long term he will probably be an example for how to not evolve, which will help people to avoid this particular trap.

It is simple because it is clear, when it is not clear it is not simple, because it isn't seen.

Hahahaha. So, free will is an illusion. And? That literally means it is real, because that's what reality is. You have to understand that illusion and reality are synonyms. The mistake most spiritual teachers make is that they believe reality must be logical. They deconstruct Free Will and then they say "Oh, Free will was only an Illusion!" Yes, it is only illusion, like all of existence is. So what? Just because you made it cease doesn't mean it didn't exist. And on a deeper level, Free Will is the Groundless Ground. It is fundamental. Free Will is Creativity. Stop assuming reality makes sense or that it is some sort of logical simulation. it has nothing to do with that. You are literally trying to make reality logical, and the result will be suffering. If you think Free Will cannot exist because it would be impossible, then you clearly haven't recognized that to Reality, creating Impossibility is effortless.

The reason why theory is needed is because your mind only understands theory. The irony is that it requires a lot of theory to uncondition your mind into a territory of non-theory. Your mind is fundamentally a theorizer. It will theorize everything, and it will do so unconsciously, without even knowing that it is creating theory. So, really the theory is like a pathway that is supposed to lead you to the cessation of all theory. It is like you are given a map that is supposed to lead you out of a labyrinth. A labyrinth which you are imagining. And all the map is supposed to do, is make you realize that in the end, you have imagined all of the labyrinth, and that all you need to do is stop imagining it, to free yourself from it.

@caelanb You are lost in the conceptual. Forget about enlightenment, forget about Leo, forget about everything. Your problem is not that you are too skeptical, your problem is that you are far too unskeptical. Right now, look at existence itself. The color of the screen that, according to the mind, you are looking at. Does this exist? What would it even mean to deny it exists? See, to deny something, you require it to exist, otherwise how could you possibly know what even it is that you are denying? So, look at the pure isness of the color of the Screen. And now ask yourself: What is this? How is this possible? If your mind comes up with a concept for an answer, recognize that the concept is it's own form of Existence. After all the Concept Exists, is that not so? How would you otherwise even know of any such concept? If it exist, look at it clearly. And then look at it, at what it is. Then, return your attention back to that which your concept was supposed to describe. Are you aware that these two objects or substances of Existences are clearly not the same? That the purity of the colors you are experiencing is utterly foreign and different from the concepts which you thought would explain that color? See, ask yourself: What even is explanation? What even is concept? What even is understanding? And then, clearly look at it. Look and see the difference between Understanding and the colors which you are seeing. If you recognize this difference, you will notice that there will never be any kind of understanding, explanation or concept that could possibly explain, understand or conceptualize that which is not the conceptual, explanation or understanding. Notice that all of this, the conceptual, the colors, every other substance which you call subjective, that all of those are made of Pure Existence. They are Existence itself. What else could they possibly be? The exist, so clearly they must be made of Existence. That's what they literally are. Nothing in existence could possibly be anything else. This is everything you have. This is Existence. You never had anything. And now notice, anything that you will call outside of this existence, will necessarily be part of this Existence. Any possible concept, any possible substance, will necessarily be part of your existence. But nevermind that. You can forget all of this. If you want to know the Nature of Existence, look at it. It's right here, you are made of it. Everything is made of it. Any philosophy, any evidence, any scientific model, any material, anything possibly will be made of existence. The same existence which you are made from. So, simply look at it. Look closely enough and you will recognize the Nature of Existence, and that the Looking itself was nothing but one more Form within Existence itself.

No. No. No. Anything you could possibly think will always be only that, thinking. When you think to yourself "Reality is imagined", you have created delusion if you cannot see clearly the nature of what has happend. All you did when you said "Realtiy is imagined", is that you created a concept, not much different from the concept of a unicorn. This is what you must work on first before you continue with anything. As long as you cannot see the conceptual for what it is, you will forever be trapped in it. You will look at it as the Ground of Being, when Being is Groundless. When you recognize the Groundless Ground, you will not need to say anything about it. You will not need to understand it is imagination, as illusion, as unrealness. Because you will recognize that all of these things are forms in and of themselves, forms that emerged from the Groundless Ground. When Leo says Imagination, he does not mean imagination. He means:

The fundamental issue he has is that he is trying to come up to a notion of reality through conceptualization. So, you did engage with him conceptually, but it will actually make it impossible for him to ever reach reality. It's like he is trying to come up with a concept of Redness without having ever experienced Redness. It simply makes no sense, it will be an empty construct. He is so lost in the conceptual that it will be difficult for him to disengage and simply look as Isness as is. He has to construct his concepts as a result of direct experience/Isness. He has to look at the color red, and then he can create concepts that fit Redness. There is no other way, and most importantly, he needs to clearly recognize that the Isness of Redness and the Isness of Concept is seperate. I think your early meditation videos made this clear. It is very interesting because I for long couldn't quite grasp what you meant by the fact that it makes no sense to doubt the Absolute. Today, it is unquestionable to me, and I can clearly see what doubt is. I can clearly see the conceptual for what it is, and as long as I did not recognize this I was trapped within it. It is like the mind is trapped within interpretation, and it confuses interpretation to be fundamental to reality. But actually, it is the other way around. And once you simply look at reality, you recognize that A) it is without a doubt reality, B) it is without a doubt absolute and C) doubt itself is something that cannot touch reality. All of these things are seen, they do not need to be interpreted. You tried to guide him a bit with the hand example, but he was still trapped in the conceptual and interpretation. Like I said, it is futile to go about it this way. He has to undo that which is trapping him within the conceptual, within one particular aspect of reality which he actually confuses to be all, or fundamental, to existence. That's the whole game. Existence is right infront of you, all you have to do is open your eyes to it. The nature of existence is necessarily in everything that exists. That is so obvious and so simple, yet a mind that is trapped in the conceptual cannot grasp this.

I think there is a balance between ending your career to create your own socialist upotia in the jungle and literally engaging in the the most capitalistic tendencies possible that you yourself called out other celebreties for engaging in. Whether he likes it or not, he is in a position of leadership, and he will be an example to many people, like you are Leo. At least you don't live the opposite of what you are espousing, like Hasan does. The guy is literally engaging in the most ridiculous superficial stage orange lifestyle you can imagine. Hell, I know stage orange people who would cringe at what the guy is doing and what he is spending his money on.

First just become clearly aware of this, seek out that feeling, that desire, and look at it as clearly as you can. Do this for some time, make it a practice.

Time-stamped.

Vaush is a bit different from Hasan, in that he is more honest about his values, which are very clearly not stage green. Here you have a stage green socialist criticizing Vaush: The key difference that you will notice is that Vaush will argue against taking responsibility for what happens collectively, as someone at stage orange would naturally do, whereas Perspective Philosophy will argue for taking responsibility. How they arrive at these positions is relatively meaningless, because both of them are ad-hoc rationalizations for more underlying value systems. If you do not know Vaush's history, he is very much inspired by another steamer called Destiny, his entire philosophy is basically a copy of his, a sort of utilitarianism that is grounded in egoism. Ironically Destiny has already developed past that point and in practice is further developed on the spiral than Vaush, even though both are very deficient in green.

Actually reverse this. Right now there is a bit of an arrogance. Yes, it is so simple. But now, how is it possible that to the Professor, it is not so simple? Truly attempt to explore this issue. You will find that there is something there, something which you are underestimating. Something that once you see, will humble you. See, your mind has been trained to value and look at particular aspects of being, while rejecting others. This is a mistake, it will not actually reveal to you the nature of delusion. To recognize delusion, you must fully see it, not simply make it disappear.

What you should do in my opinion is get a good grasp of the feeling. The feeling that motivates you to "avoid all bias", to "go past X". I suspect it is the same feeling that made you desire Peace, and you simply replace the object of desire, thinking that this will solve it. But what you actually need to do is resolve the very desire itself. Become aware of it, confront it, accept it. Do not avoid it, do not seek to go "past it". Because that will actually feed it. Become clearly aware of this dynamic and how you have been chasing your own tail.

It's so mindblowing to me. You have like this priest who just bought himself a ferrari, and then a person who actually lives by the virtues of Christ comes along to criticize the guy for not living by the words of Jesus. And you guys go "But nobody is perfect, leave our Priest alone! Just because he buys himself a ferrari doesn't mean he isn't a good Christian!". The only people who would say this, and support the priest, are people who themselves don't care about the word of Christ at all, and who themselves would buy themselves a ferrari if they were the priest. The entire idea of stage orange individualism is that anyone can do with their money whatever they please. They can get rich by telling everyone about lofty ideals, and then do nothing to live by those ideals. Nobody is saying the guy can't have a reasonable living, but come on. You literally got rich off of this and you will use most the money for your own benefit? That's utterly shameless, especially as a socialist. I know plenty, plenty stage green people who literally have barely anything and do more than that guy does. They wouldn't even want to live like that, to them it's simply disgusting. I really do believe most of the people on this forum have a huge lack of understanding of what embodiment stage green actually means, which is why you have such a difficult time spotting these obvious frauds. The only way you can analyse these issues is by surface level ideologies people hold, which tells me precisely to which depth you have explored a particular stage. Okay my dude.

You have created an attachment to Peace. As soon as you have an attachment, you will fear losing it, and that will disturb your peace. So, counter-intuitively, to seek peace you must not seek peace, you must confront and accept suffering. See, your seeking of the avoidance of bias will create suffering too, because bias is part of your Being. You cannot escape it, all you could possibly do is delude yourself into thinking you are unbiased, which will make your bias just more dangerous. You have to stop with the running away, moving past this, past that. Reality doesn't exist for you to run away from it. You created it because you are in Love with it, and that includes your current struggle.

Nonsense, Hasan is employing people himself, he wants to literally change the entire framework of our economy, and yet he himself will not create a cooperative? How gullible can you be to think that he is doing everything he can do through his political commentary. The guy is literally rich, he could so much more. By actually doing so little he is doing active harm to the progessives, as he aspouses individualsitic virtues that seek to avoid collective responsibility. I don't care what he does with his money, I don't expect anything from the guy. But nobody is going to convince me that the dude is anywhere near Stage Green. He is Orange with some Green, not the other way around.

It is not about what we expect Green Individuals to do, it is about what the Green Individuals expect themselves what to do. That is core to their values, and that is how you know where they are at on the spiral. Nobody is asking someone who is basically a wage slave to capitalism to let go of all his possessions to become some sort of ideal of socialism. None of the actual stage green people who criticize people like Vaush and Hasan make these arguments, it's a ridiculous strawman. If however someone is literally becoming the one percent of the one percent, by spouting socialist ideals, and literally criticizing celebreties for the very same things that one would engage in as soon as one had aquired the same amount of wealth and status, and feeling no responsibility to actually meaningfully change themselves or the system that one literally views to be as completely unjustified and evil, then one is no different from a Televangelist. The guy is filthy rich and he literally is doing viritually nothing to live by his socialist ideals. The world is not going to change by people talking about ideals, the world is going to change by people actually changing their behaviours and values. People like Hasan are the very few people who are privileged enough to actually live out their ideals. But if even they cannot do it, how are they going to expect the entirety of society to change, when any other person would actually have to sacrifice and adopt responsibility to meaningfully change anything in our world. What the guy says and what he does are in complete opposition, and ironically that is what he teaches all the socialists that listen to him. "Continue to engage in capitalism as if nothing changde, but let's talk about how we all think everyone but us is evil for not agreeing with our positions, that we ourselves will not bother actualizing to even the mildest degree in practice!". This is literally Televangelism for socialists.

When Curt Jaimungal proposed this possibility to him, I think Leo missed an oppurtunity to get to the core and essence of the issue. The way he attempted to resolve this was by actually engaging in the delusional framework that was being proposed. Instead of trying to convince Curt Jaimungal within that framework, I think it would have been far easier to make him understand the misframing of the entirety of his metaphysical understanding. What Curt does not realize, and what Leo points out far too little because of how much of an intellectual he is, is the fact that the very essence and being of "Outsidedness" itself is part of the illusion, part of what Leo would call imagination. Outsidedness and Withinness here is not realized to be merely one dimension of existence, but rather it is treated as if it was Essential to the Ground of Being. Curt is missing that what he uses to engage with Truth itself is itself completely delusiory, that he confuses something that is manifested from the Groundless Ground as the Ground itself. Basically Curt proposes some sort of underlying Metalogic, which somehow escapes Being, with is more fundamental than Being, which is what gives rise to Being. Leo simply had to point out and clearly identify this mistake in perception. That the metalogic that Curt is too unaware to even realize he is assuming, is itself something that is manifest through the Groundless Ground. That Outsideness and Withinness are nothing but one aspect of Being, like the colors black and white. The fundamental problem here is that Consciousness is assumed to be some sort of Subject thing, something that lies in contrast to something else. An Object of Being, rather than the fundamental Ground(lessness) of Being. That Outsidedness and Withinness are somehow more fundamental than Consciousness. Curt does not realize the outragous nature of this because he is referring to something completely different when he talks about Consciousness. His notions of it are embedded in a framework which his mind is unable to see past, as it is from that vantage point that he himself perceives existence. He in that sense is the ventage point, he is the framework. Which is why it is impossible to teach him. For realization to take place, Curt himself must fundamentally change, because his Nature is what determines the Reality of his Existence.

You have created an idea of Spirituality which is not Spirituality. What is it to you that is unspiritual? You say there is that which is lower of consciousness. How could this possibly be the case? The very idea that you created for yourself that discriminates between some sort of "Higher form of Being" vs "Lower form of Being", how is that itself not the very form of duality and low of Beingness that you seek to avoid so much? See, your mind is defined by fear, avoidance, hierarchy, survival, judgement, superiority, inferiority, imperfection. What you call "Low consciousness", is actually nothing but a projection of your own mind. If you would choose not to imagine low consciousness, it would not exist. You are creating that which you seek to escape of, by the very process of attempting to escape it. Think about this. What would you be escaping if that which you are escaping wouldn't even exist? Again, you have a feeling of lack of free will, you have a feeling of everything being caused by everything else. Can you see how this feeling, this object of Being, has grabbed you and determined the very nature of your Experience? This object, feeling, cannot be essential to your nature, because it was not present for eternity, it was not present since the moment you were born. You went from one delusion, one object of Isness, to be absorbed by another. You have not escaped the Whirlwind and Dance of Duality, you are being violently tossed back and forth by it. By pointing to reality and having created a hierarchy of Low and High Consciousness, you have tainted your perception. You have begun to operate from that framework as if it was essential to reality, as if it was what Grounded Existence. But Existence has no Ground, which is you you had the choice to create any Ground you desired. And what you desired, as a result of being convinced by Leo Gura's ideology, is to create a particular narrow framework from which you looked at the world. A framework that is only Truthful as long as you shall imagine it to be. That is the cause of your suffering. It is your arrogance, your judgement, your idea of a superior kind of Isness. That is which rendered you incapable of Surrendering to the Perfection of All that Is. Because to Surrender truly, means to let go of the idea of Spirituality, of Higher and Lower Consciousness, of that which is Passive and Active. These dualities you have created are no different from the dualities of those who you criticize to be of a Lower Kind.

There is a deep assumption that reality can be grasped with the human mind. It is like assuming that an ant could comprehend calculus or shakespear. For the ant to understand shakespear or calculus, the nature of the ant would have to change. Because it actually that which is the ant which determines that which is the understanding of the ant. The ant is it's own form of existence. The ant could only ever hope to be the ant, and the dissolution of the ant would become the revelation of that which is the dissolution of the ant. The assumption that truth can be discovered is it's own contracted form of Isness. Everything already is Truth, and different kinds of Truth can only be realized by actualizing these Truths into existence. So, the one who claims he is discovering Truth, is not realizing that the process of Discovery is actually the alteration of the Moment of Being that he is. That he never discovered anything of greater depth or Reality, but rather simply changed from one form to another. That the seeming depth is actually merely part of the very nature of his current Being, or the contrast between the one and the other. In the end, everything is pure Creative Miracle, and the entire Force of Being stands behind the ignorance of the monkey as much as the Absoluteness of the Godhead.

The question was about what stage he is at, not about whether he should or shouldn't continue with his nonsense. You completely missed the marked.