Scholar

Do it! If it's a catastrophic failure you can always reunite the wise one's with the rest of the herd.

Right, though I think humanity is not yet wise enough to take these kinds of consideration into account, in the end the artists will have to advocate for themselves, but I see a lot of denial in the community about this topic in particular. One interesting dynamic I expect to occur actually, is that once these technologies will become accessible, we will see a steep decline in people who seek to learn the craft of drawing and painting. When every kid will have the ability to create fantastic art by simply typing in a prompt, what kid will bother to try and learn, for years and years, the skill to become a masterful artist? Just to get to the level of what an AI will be able to do would take years, and therefore it will seem like a waste of time to even begin the journey. The ease of accessibility in contrast with the amount of effort it takes to learn that skill will discourage most people. Because AI only learns from already preexisting styles and images, this actually could mean the end of evolution for art in general, but I suppose we will see how good AI will be at generating novel styles akin to what humans can achieve. But like I said, mankind has not yet achieved the level of sophistication to be this forward-thinking. You can expect a lot of suffering in the future. We have already ruined entire generations by having given them access to social media, and quite possibly irreparably damaging the way they view the world and themselves. I don't know if this will be that much of a problem. There already exist bots which can disseminate misinformation, and in regards to what kind of articles to trust, we already have this issue as we speak. Articles written by fools and ideologues are as dangerous as articles written by AI's, the solution here is a proper epistemic foundation, which we have long avoided to nurture within individuals. That's the reason why there are so many people confused about the reality of the world. I already said this on this forum several times. The success in the 21st century is not defined how much information you have or exists, but rather by how you navigate the novel information landscape. This something we will have to develop and learn as individuals and as collectives, and I think the lessons we will learn from this will be the foundation for a new level of sophistication for the entire human race. Without this challenge, humans would have never given the opportunity to evolve. I think AI's will solve this problem entirely, they will be able to detect AI generated content and differentiate it from authentic material. When it comes to talking on the phone, we might just switch over to talking with the camera on, which will be interesting! It might positively effect human dynamics. Andrew Yang ran for president for this very reason. The solution is UBI. It's really a no brainer, inevitable and even desirable. It will finally open the door to us becoming responsible and wise individuals. We will finally be able to transcend our self-obsessed, egoic nature. We will be capable of adopting our proper role and responsibility for the guardians and nurtures of this planet. We will open our eyes to the suffering of the world, and because there will be nothing more meaningful to do, we will help all sentient beings on this planet to prosper, we will create heaven on earth. It will be the beginning of our destiny, of our meaning not the end. It will finally give us the space to turn inward and recognize our true nature. Notice the difference in our perspectives. You see the asteroid as the end of the world, I see it as a gift from the Divine, the beginning of a new era. An era which will make this one seem like the dark ages. We will forget about all the problems you have mentioned, and we will recognize that those challenges were what was necessary to wake us up. Because that is how mankind grows, through challenge, not through procrastination. For the past 50 years, the western world was in a state of developmental stagnation, this is what will wake us up to the fact that sticking our head in the sand and pretending we are all that exists is no longer an option. I think you truly underestimate the amount of prosperity, wisdom and love that awaits us all. You will realize that your concerns were only small pebbles, laying on a road to the kingdom of heaven.

A convincing argument for what? I never said nobody will ever do these things, I'm just going against this weird narrative that nobody is thinking about the ethical concerns and possible negative consequences. This is clearly not true. And sure if you think you can change the incentive landscape go ahead and contribute to that, though I don't think that will require special pointing out, because it will happen anyways and the problems will become apparent. Remember, we had people warn us about the negative effects of social media for like a decade, and what exactly did that do? Nothing so far.

Maybe we need a secret subsection of the forum where only the wise get invited to, where the adults can discuss things like adults? Would be kind of cool, even if it might cause some undesirable dynamics.

Dall-E 2 is a good example, they restricted people from generating human faces for some time, and still restrict people from generating pornographic content. Here you have an article on adobes take: https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2022/03/24/putting-principles-into-practice-adobes-approach-to-ai-ethics And I don't think Google will behave much differently. I also read stances by the Dall-E 2 creators that they are very concerned about misinformation that might get created with their AI, so that's another thing that they seem to be conscious of. I think it was a reactionary response towards a position you perceived I have, and maybe because you do reject the more important point I am trying to make about the future of mankind, aswell as how to integrate oneself and aid in the progress of mankind rather than just complaining about everything. My main point was an attempt to provide value to the OP by explaining to him how evolution is related to this, recontextualizing AI as an opportunity to improve mankind will be essential if we are to face the challenges ahead of us. I don't see a lot of talk about that in general, and I think it's far more important than the concerns, which will reveal themselves to us one way or another, and which mankind will naturally adadpt to and solve. I compared the AI with the asteroid that caused a mass extinction, so I don't know how you came away from that thinking I was trying to minimize the challenges we will face. I am trying to tell you to be a bird.

This is so silly lol, I was the one pushing against the overly negative view of the OP, and you are now pushing against mine because you yourself have not recognized the same intention within my posts as you have in yours, just in reverse. You are also not really saying anything but "Let's be careful everyone, this is dangerous!". I never said you can't point out the problems, but you aren't providing any solutions, and the little solutions you are provide are more virtue signalling than anything. Either way, nobody will slow down. That's just naive. AI's will be developed at a rapid speed, like a rat race. This cannot be prevented. And I also disagree about you that the current developers of many AIs somehow are completely ignorant to ethical concerns. They are not, I actually applaud them for the amount of consideration they give to ethical implications. It might not always be motivated by the right reasons, but atleast we are seeing these decisions being made.

But everyone already does this, we have been coming up with dooms-day scenario's for the past 30 years. The point is, dwelling on the negatives won't get you anywhere, you should be already thinking about how to solve these issues with AI. And if those problems are so important to you, then become involved in it, work on some project that will use AI to create a better information landscape on the internet. There you have a life purpose, instead of moaning and fear-mongering. Notice how absurdly easy it is to identify these threats and problems, yet you have not proposed a single solution. Concern without problem solving is a waste of time. How many peopel do you think exist in society, let alone in this forum, who think AI will be completely unproblematic and we will not have any challenges to face? We all grew up watching terminator my dude. Of course we have concerns, but like I said, you need to be focusing on the potential and the opportunity if you ever want to get something done. And if you can't see how much of an opportunity this is, then like I said, your pessimism and fear has eroded your ability to see the world clearly.

@zurew If you cannot turn your fear into courage, hope and inspiration, you will be left behind, because there is no room for you in the future of this planet. Your pessimism will be extinguished, rendered an antiquity of evolution. But it is in your hands whether or not you will be the one to do so, whether or not you will accept reality as it is, and see within it the potental for Peace, Love and Prosperity. We were never closer to it than ever before. We have everything we need to create paradise on earth. What lacks is the wisdom and courage to see it, and to actualize it. That is the number one problem we face, not AI. And the beautiful thing is, all it takes is for you to open your eyes. This is why I have faith.

See, this perfectly encapsulates the way AI makes us mature, because it forces us to question the true purpose of our path. See, if the point of my existence is to create cute little art projects, I might be easily replaced. If the point of my existence is solely to be a research scientist, I might be replaced. But, if the point of my existence is to discover and explore humanity, AI is a tool. If the of my existence is to discover the nature of reality, AI is a tool. The more superficial your goals are, the easier you are replaced. The deeper your goals are, the harder it will be to replace you. That is, well, the purpose of the idea of life purpose. Your purpose cannot be to merely want to be someone who creates cute little art projects, or someone who is a research scientist. Those are merely one of the ways with which you chose to accomplish your true purpose. If your goal is deeper, anything that will make the grunt work faster will be an opportunity to you, not a threat. After all, why would a research scientist ever feel threatened by an AI like you have described? That should be a dream come true, the research scientist should have thousands of ideas of how he can use this new opportunity to further his goals What you just read should give you a shocking realization: Fear stagnates you. Fear hinders you from being a pioneer. Fear makes you blind to the holy grain. Fear manifests your own demise. What do you keep talking about how AI will doom us? Why are you not contemplating of ways AI can save us, how AI can solve all the issues you have described? Who do you think will rule the future? People who feared AI, or people who got inspired by it? Who will be the dinosaurs who have chosen to remain to dwell on the ground, and who will be those who have chosen to take to the skies? God favors the bold, those filled with Love, Grace and Faith.

As an artist, these AI technologies gave me clarity and purpose. They made me understand a particular thing about the nature of art: Art is fundamentally the exploration of the human condition and experience. Therefore AI will not replace artists, it will aid them in the exploration of our humanity. To me, art is taking parts of our subjectivity, of our consciousness, and highlighting it, manifesting it in the world in the hope that others might experience the same that we do. It is an exploration of our subjectivity, and by expressing it, we can show to others a potential they might have not yet seen in themselves, others, or the world. Beauty does not exist in the world, it only exists in the mind, and that is why the AI cannot ever achieve what the human mind can. Beauty only exists if the mind creates it, when it recognizes a rhythm, whether that be a rhythm of drama, a rhythm of motion, a rhythm of shape or pattern, a rhythm of sound or any other kind of rhythm that humans relate to. There are infinite potential rhythms in the world, as the world is potentially infinitely interconnected, but only some rhythms will speak to us as human beings. We feel beauty, anger, joy, sadness in response to particular patterns within the world or our minds, as a result of our biological, cultural and metaphysical legacy. Therefore, art is not mere self-expression, it is the exploration of our humanity, it is the exploration of our being, our psyche, our biology, our culture, our consciousness. We are attempting to find all of the infinite potential rhythms within the world and the mind, those rhythms that relate to our being, to who we are. Because we are all unique, we all will have different rhythms that relate to us, and because we are so similar, we all have similar rhythms that relate to us. What AI can do is recognize certain patterns within what we have expressed. It can create things that relate to us, only because we have given it things that related to us. The AI itself will relate to everything we give it, because it has no legacy, it has no experience, it has no subjectivity. I think the right way to look at AI therefore is not as something to replace us, but as something that will aid us in the discovery of our humanity, our consciousness. What else is life, but an exploration of the infinite potential of rhythms that existence has to offer? If we use it responsibly, and we face the uncertain future with bravery, hope and love, I am convince that AI will become an extention of our wisdom. We cannot allow fear and pessimism to consume us, because if we do, the tools we use will be a reflection of that. If your life purpose is limited to flailing paint on a canvas, whether it be real or digital, then you will be replaced. If your life purpose is the exploration of humanity itself, then no thing will ever replace you. The AI has no humanity, and even if it did, it does not have your humanity. Your particular individuated consciousness. AI infact, is a vehicle, a tool, for you to use to aid you on your journey through that which makes you what you are. I do not know how long it might have taken me to realize this, to crystallize in me an insight into the true purpose of art, if these AI's had not been created. At first I viewed them as a threat, and then I asked myself: Why are they a threat to me, if my purpose is to create? What else could they possibly be but an opportunity to aid me on my path? I was a dinosaur, stuck to this earth, roaming around and uncertain of my path. Now I know where my destiny lies, because of the terrifyingly beautiful star that is roaring towards the Earth.

But that's the issue, it actually can't do truly novel things, everything it will do will be restraint to it's dataset, strictly visually speaking. What it can do is actually more restraint that you think it is, this will become apparent as we look at more complex situations that require creative problem solving with understanding. Currently, what is happening is "Fake it till you make it!", but sadly, there is only so much that you can fake. It can get you very far, very fast, until you hit a wall full stop. I don't know how threatening the disinformation thing actually is. You will probably be able to create an AI which is capable of detecting AI generated content (at least in image and video form), so social media's will simply have to employ those. Also, consider the amount of computational power that is required to generate these images, aswell as the access to absurdly large data-bases. It's not as easy and accessible as it seems. I'm sure we are facing many new challenges, but remember technology always demands us to become more responsible and mature. Remember when Oppenheimer witnessed the first denotation of a atom bomb, he quoted: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds." Yet, he has become the saviour of worlds, because mankind was forced to put aside most of it's ambitions for war, it simply became untenable to act that irresponsibly. It brought peace and prosperity to the world, because mankind grew wise enough. Look at this as an opportunity for growth, don't fear. Each and everyone one of these changes is asking of you to become more mature, more loving, more responsible. Soon, the time for complacency might be over. One of the things AI is reminding us of, is of course that we have to take epistemology seriously. We are not taking it seriously at the moment, and the world is suffering as a result. AI forces us into action, it gives us no choice, as so many technologies before did: Adapt or perish. Many people to this day believe that when the world was struck by an asteroid 66 million years ago, dinosaurs went extinct. But this is not true, instead dinosaurs took to the sky and became the rulers of the winds and the emperors of the clouds, they are doing better today than they ever have. Be a bird, my friend.

We have not yet created an AI, with current AI, even as impressive as they seem, they completely lack even the most basic kind of understanding: https://www.unite.ai/is-dall-e-2-just-gluing-things-together-without-understanding-their-relationships/ One of the problems here is that AI might not actually be possible under the current physical hardware constraints, as it seems to me like any form of true intelligence will require an individuated consciousness. The substance of understanding, after all, is made of a particular form of consciousness, or a particular ontology. As long as this ontology is not created, you will not have understanding. And as it seems, this substance is related to the particular relationship-structure of the wavefunction of the brain. If there is no unified relationship structure, all you can really hope to do is imitate structures resulting from understanding. So, the AI is not understanding anything. Humans have understanding, part of that understanding is labelling different shape-relationships. "X shape relationship = dog". And then, the AI is given the word "dog", and the shape-relationship, until it has found some sort of pattern within that shape-relationship which is constant. Basically, what the fake-"AI" is doing is using human understanding, to then give humans certain shape-patterns which resemble a certain kind of understanding we associate with a certain label. This has nothing to do with the kind of intelligence we speak of when we talk of true artificial intelligence. AI-researchers do not understand consciousness, which is why they will stumble in the dark for a long time until they realize the sophistication of the brain does not lie in the neural structures, but the substance which are in relationship to those structures, in other words, specific forms of consciousness. Once they do, they will realize the monumental nature of the task of creating true artificial intelligence.

People don't need to consume meat. I love how everyone always says "Well yes they should ban factory farming, that's torture!", but then when it comes to it, and the prices are about to slightly rise, everyone is completely fine with torturing innocent individuals by the billions? That tells you everything about the state of consciousness of people today, we truly live in the dark ages. By the way there were excellent arguments made for why a ban of slavery was bad for the US and the slaves at the time, and infact it turned out that many of them were correct. A large number of slaves died a terrible death, of disease, hunger and so forth after slavery was abolished, because they suddenly were forced to fend for themselves in a system that rejected them. You don't need plant-based protein powder, unless you want to restrict your calories while still getting enough protein to body build and remain lean at the same time. Though at that point you will probably be consuming protein powder anyways. Progress always comes with new challenges, don't use that as an excuse not to change.

Oh no, powerful countries can no longer invade smaller countries, how terrifying of a world we live in!

Just try this: Tomorrow, for the first 8 hours of the day, turn off your internet. Then, when you do watch a video, before you watch a video, ask yourself consciously. "Do I want to watch this video? Why do I want to watch this video, what will it give me?", and instead of just clicking random videos on youtube, take things into your own hand and plan each video you are going to watch. Realize what the videos are achieving for you, maybe you feel some sort of anxiety when you don't watch videos, then ask yourself "What will happen if I just don't watch the video?". Then, observe the anxiety, and then ask yourself "Okay, if I did not have anxiety, if I felt movitated right now, what would I want to do be doing? How would I want to spend my time today?" Realize the space you have within the day, and use it for the things you truly want to do. And realize that the anxiety will not kill you. Just see what will happen if you suffer the first 8 hours of your day without internet. What's important is that you cannot access the internet whatsoever from the moment you wake up, until the 8 hours are over. And later, you can do whatever you want.

What does that have to do with anything discussed in this thread?

This is a really good example to learn about self-bias, it's one of the reasons why progress is so hard to make. Someone will suffer as the consequences of more sensible and rational policy, some people will lose money, some people will lose their jobs. And of course, they will have every incentive to both lobby against the truth, as well as deny the devilry of their own work. I have not seen as much cognitive dissonance in individuals as I have seen in animal farmers. They can tell you they love their animals, while they send them off to the slaughterhouses. They will tell you they love nature, while their livelihood depends on destroying and exploiting it. Of course, not all animal farmers are like that, many are sensible and willingly transition to plant based agriculture, as well as starting to realize the moral hazard they are causing. The danger of the right is not that they will turn your country fascistic, the danger is the ideology they create to dismiss anything that restricts their freedom to cause harm in the world, the blantant self-bias they engage in, and the way the argue away reality so that their life's will remain the way they are. It's expected, that's the nature of self-bias. It takes a lot of consciousness to recognize the way you are harming the world, and be willing to make the necessary sacrifices to change. Notice how the ignorance and devilry is biting these people in the ass. If they had been responsible and conscious farmers, they would have long realized that animal agriculture cannot be the future, and that it is unsustainable. They could have transitioned away long before the government was forced to put them in the situation they are currently in. But of course, they chose to deny reality for their own selfish benefits, and these are the consequences. This is a valuable lesson for all of us.

I think you don't realize that China is equally, if not more, reliant on the US and the West. But you are right I guess if hundreds of millions of people starve in China, noone will bat an eye. This is how economics work. If you sell something to somebody, you are as reliant on them to buy it as they are reliant on you selling it. That's one more reason why China will not start a war, it would collapse their entire economy.

It's cringe to me that every issue has to be politicized, ironically the Right would be saying it was a show of strength if Trump had visited during his presidency. Taiwan is an independent nation, everyone can visit it any time. The only reason China is reacting this way is because they know it will make their devilish plans more difficult. It's actually kind of funny because people who actually thought China would be provoked into war because of this are clearly showing that they have no understanding of China whatsoever. China has been doing this kind of overreaction and flailing around for decades now, it was obvious that they wouldn't be doing anything and what Pelosi did worked the way anyone would have predicted who knows CCP politics. Aside from that China's military is so incompetent and unprepared, even if it tried an invasion it would most likely fail worse than Russia has, let alone if it wanted to start a war with the western nations. I think some of you people don't understand how deeply corrupted the chinese system is. But oh well what can you expect on this forum in regards to political analysis, it's like you guys eat up whatever the current media talking points are whether it be the coming from the left or the right.

I don't understand why you say you are not sure of the geopolitical implications, and then in the same sentence say "seems like it wouldn't affect the West much". To know whether or not it would affect the West much requires understanding the geopolitical implications. You really think the US is "kicking the hornets nest" for fun? Because of solidarity for Taiwan? That's naive, this is a clearly calculated move solely for the benefit of the US.

lol

Well, you saying that over and over does not make it true.

Of course they are, and the fact that you are not realizing this is damaging the trans movement. We have the category of a woman, for example. If you show a nude trans woman to most people, they will not consider that a woman, they will insist it is a trans woman. So it cannot be the case that the categories of woman and man are supercategories. Trans woman does not translate to "A woman who is trans", it actually translates to "A man who transition to appear as a woman". That's actually the way this category works for most people. If you keep insisting this is not the case, then you will continue running into a wall, and all you will be left with is call people transphobic. You won't be able to convince anyone, because your own understanding of what is happening is lacking. So, you do want to destroy old categories and create new ones. If you did not, people wouldn't be confused about what you are doing, nor would they be resisting.

That depends on how you construct the categories. You can't say one or the other thing is the case, because these categories are socially constructed. If you want to advocate for new categories, then do that. But don't pretend like you are describing reality. All we are doing is creating labels.

That's because he is a trans-man. We don't have to have all of these things fit into the same category. The point @Carl-Richard is trying to make is that both the category of man and woman do not fit here. As you pointed out, people would definitely not consider this person a woman. On the other hand, Carl correctly pointed out that if individuals would see their genitalia, they would also not consider this individual a man. Well, it happens that there is a perfect label for this kind of individual! A trans-man. Someone who was born a woman and transitioned to become more aligned with the characterisitics of a man. Viola, no confusion, everyone is happy! Why the need to collapse the concept of trans-man and man? Why is that so important? The difference will always be there, whether you label it the same or not.