Scholar

This is only a double standard if you remove it from all context, and I assume your implication was: "He doesn't think he should call him a nazi even if it fits his definition, because that would undermine his goals, but he does think he can call him a fascist, a racist and an anti-semite, even though that undermines his goals." If that was the case, there might be a double-standard, but this is not the case. The right way to frame things, and Destiny went into detail on this, would be the following: "Destiny thinks he ought not call him a nazi, fascist, racist or anti-semite, in the context of a conversation where he deems that would undermine his goals to a sufficient extent. He does think he can call him a nazi, fascist, racist or anti-semite, in the context of conversations where that would not undermine his goals to a sufficient extent." Only by applying reductionism or pedanticism would there actually be a double standard. If you know the underlying dynamic, it makes sense and is consistent, only if you boil it down to the outcomes, omitting the particular conditions, would there be an apparent contradiction, for example: "Destiny does think he can call Nick Fuentes a nazi, but Destiny thinks he should not call Nick Fuentes a nazi."

That's not what a double-standard is. Using the same words with different meanings is just how language functions. And no, MrGirl showcased how he does not care about that mission, because his entire line of argumentation failed. In the end all he could say was "Because I wanna!", and that is where all his conversations necessarily lead to, because he does not do anything beyond describing self-bias. And no, they have completely different goals.

Depends on your goal. Watched some of the conversation now, it really showcases the limitation of MrGirl's stage green lense. He is all about recognizing ones own bias and expressing it authentically, which is why he was urging Destiny to express his actual moral stance. MrGirl's goal is to be authentic, for the sake of authenticity. It's ironic that he makes claims like, if he lived among nazi's, he would not fight them with violence but rather try to convince them with this methodology of his. It's such a naive, limited stage green perspective, and Destiny is right to point that out to him. The truth is, MrGirl cannot convince anyone really, who does not already tend to align with his values, all he can fascilitate is an exploration of perspectives. The contradiction and flaw in his system is that, he obviously does want to influence and create a world akin to his own moral views, yet the tools he is so dogmatically attached to will not allow for that to happen. He is failing to convince Destiny of his own value system, because all he can do in the end is say "Well, that's how I feel because I was raised this way.". All he can do is express his value system, but anyone who does not align with it can just reject it, and in fact is right to do so, because MrGirl admits it's just his on self-bias. So really, MrGirl is trying to achieve two things at the same time that are just opposed to each other, and it just undermines the whole process. Also notice, that because of this lense MrGirl is attached to, you cannot ever really move him off any of his points, because in the end it's all just self-bias, and he thinks everything boils down to self-bias, so in the end he thinks that nothing is more valid than anything else, so why would he ever change any of his positions.

Interesting thing we have kind of completely forgotten about: Nazis don't exist anymore by the definitions we used to use, even like 10 years ago. People who adhere to nazi ideology are not nazis, they are neo-nazis. We specifically had that term to describe these people, and I remember vividly in my youth we used that term, and the term nazi had an exclusively historical connotation. So, it's actually pretty easy to avoid the "nazi" term altogether, by just referring to actual neo-nazis as... well, neo-nazis, because that's what they are, and that's the term we specifically have assigned to them.

What you fear is death, because death is ultimate uncertainty. Death is the most radical change into the, appearing, unknown. You are terrified because you do not know what comes after, and that is okay. Look around you, trillions, in fact, infnite of your brothers and sisters facing death every day, and another infinite of them having faced death in the past. Many of them terrified, even more so than you are. We, as worldly creatures, naturally resist death in the form it is unraveling for us. I could tell you a story that might sooth your mind, but it is likely that you will still experience the uncertainty, the terror, the fear and the dread eventually. This is because you are human. I know that you do not want to experience the fear, the suffering, the loss, the resistance. But I want to remind you that, you are allowed to fear. You are allowed to resist, to want it not to happen. You are allowed to suffer, and to resist your suffering. In that you can find your ultimate freedom. When the suffering becomes unbearable, when your fear overwhelms you, that is okay, and it is okay for you to not be okay with it. In fact, this is your ultimate freedom, your ultimate Love. You are Christ, bearing the unbearable, as we speak. You are just not realizing it. And that is part of your Love, your Ultimate Sacrifice, your Ultimate Selflessness. You have created yourself, you have made yourself ignorant, so that you could allow Creation to be itself. Creation, including your suffering, your fear. And because you are the Ultimate, your suffering cannot ever harm you. No matter how much your resist, no matter how much you suffer, how much you want it to stop, it will never touch you. It will only appear and disappear in your Presence. So go on my brother. Fear what you must fear, desire what you must desire. Allow yourself to resist, and allow yourself to be uncertain. Or do not, that you are equally allowed to do. That is the cross you bear, that is your Love. That Love, nobody can take away, not even you, no matter how blind you or anyone else might be to it.

Yes, it is Impossible. That's the final insight, unless it is deemed otherwise. Once you recognize Impossibility, there is no more need to make sense, unless it is deemed to be needed. And then you realize the Nature of Manifestation, that it's Nature cannot be captured, not by infinity, not by duality, not by anything, and yet, by infinity, by duality and by anything, unless it is deemed otherwise. That is the miracle of Existence: The Laws of Logic always apply, throughout all of that which exists. Unless they do not. It is necessitated by Oneness, unless it is not. Saying Creation is Limitless, is putting a limit on Creation. It is Impossibility.

Indra's net.

Are you sure this is still true? Courses are just knowledge, you can buy a course, extract all the knowledge and sell it for cheaper and make tons of money that way, so usually there are cheaper alternatives around for that kind of stuff. Unless it's a course where you literally get taught and tested.

But this happens because Green has cut itself off from Orange. This is why I respect people like Destiny and even Mr Girl so much, because they are reaching out a hand, and narrowing the gap between these two value systems. The reason why they are getting so toxic is because green lost all influence over stage orange, and there is a reason for that. This is not how evolution happens, it requires a transition, not a jump. There is no bridge which will lead you from orange to green at the moment. Green, in it's excess and dysfunctionality, will demonize orange to such a degree that of course none of them will take a step towards them. One small error, and in the eyes of green, you are a bigot who needs to be eliminated from society. That's not healthy, and I think we can blame social media platforms for that.

It started by you framing it as if healthy orange was already out there and it's all some sort of dysfunction stemming out of stage orange, when I think there are different dynamics at play which give rise to these phenomena. And being aware of that is the first step towards a solution.

But the issue isn't just economic. And the irony is as long as green has no holistic approach to this, the very people they try to help will be resisting them. They sit in their ivory towers, educated, raised mostly in wealthy families, and then they look at the plebs beneath them and call them racists and bigots. They are this way precisely because they did not have all the things the greens had. Demonizing them is the height of hypocrisy.

But it only works because the people have a lack. If they didn't have a lack, they wouldn't be seduced by it. Yes, I agree. But that doesn't change the underlying dynamic and the proper solutions. We need strong, healthy stage orange and blue. We need to take a step back and focus on all the people we left behind, because they won't be served by the current progressive value system.

If Hasan or Vaush watched your video they would call you an incel. But that's part of what stage orange desires. You must agree that there are some unhealthy, runaway manifestations of stage green going on. Just look at what happened to Vaush lately, it's just pure cancer. If you are progressive, you can't criticize any of progressive ideas as long as they are framed in a way in which, if you do, you might possibly be a bigot. This dynamic is happening and it is extremely unhealthy, and that's what stage orange is reacting against, which of course leads to further division and extremes on both sides. This is not systems thinking. You can't just assert "Ah he was good at manipulationg therefore he was able to exploit everyones ignorance!". I'm actually surprised that you would say something like that. Because the obvious question would be: Why are they capable of doing so today? What makes it so people are ignorant and unconscious? Your answer has no explanatory power because master manipulators always existed, yet this phenomena is clearly different on multiple levels. They get popular precisely because of the landscape of the time, and that is related to spiral dynamics. They are exploiting the dynamics, they don't give rise to them. Social media algorithms are doing a lot of damage here and it's not necessarily the case that we can just break through that, without changing the systems first.

You got no flack for it because you are not popular. If we got some stage green people to watch your video, and if they thought you were actually influential, I'm pretty sure you'd get a lot of backlash for that. Jordan Peterson is a good example, he is giving people basically a good foundation for stage blue and orange. But because of the values that system comes with, people reacted against him which lead to him equally reacting back against them. Why do you think Trump and Andrew Tate are so popular? It's just coincidence? There is a clear lack of healthy stage orange in the current Zeitgeist. You are not part of the Zeitgeist, most stage orange people will look at you and cringe. You do not appeal to those people anymore nearly as much as what is needed to get people up the spiral. To me what we are observing is clearly an ego backlash, the way we are trying to transition into green is simply not sustainable and healthy, and the ideologies emergent due to the changed social dynamics on the internet do not allow for healthy evolution.

I think people like Andrew Tate will keep emerging, because stage green has demonized stage orange to such an extent, that no healthy manifestation of stage orange is even allowed. There is a reason why people like him are popular, and as long as you ignore that reason you'll be playing Whac-A-Mole.

This is 3 years old, and even if I wouldn't say Destiny is solid yellow, he is definitely breaching into it.

I mean just an nugget of insight that the literal night's sky, throughout human history, was basically used as a "harddrive" of human imagination, which allowed us to map onto a constant... well "map", concepts which were important to us, and therefore the sky served as an ankerpoint for transfering ideas throughout time, that's just amazing. Also the idea the function of an artist can be to give direction to humanity through the usage of intuition is also amazing. They talk about tautologies and Peterson said "That's Gods defintion of himself: I am that I am". Amazing. Also another insight relation to Spiritual Seeking: You can't know whether or not something leads to truth before you act it out, you have to have faith. And think about how this relates to spiritual seeking. And think about how, to spiritually seek, you have to intuit it, you have to be pulled towards it in some shape or form, and you have to have faith in that intuition. If you do not, how would you ever stumble onto God? In other words, if God did not left a bread crumb trail for you to find him, how could you possible hope to find him? What's interesting here is that God left bread crumb trails everywhere, so that you can find him, as long as you have faith in that which you know is Good. Without the compass, you'd be lost.

I know we love to hate on Jordan, but I think Curt Jaimungel was able to tickle some good insights out of Peterson in this interview, definitely worth a watch:

Okay you do you my dude, I don't have time for this.

What are you even talking about? The lawyer thing was an example to illustrate the point, it's not related to what people in HU do. And no, demand wouldn't increase because supply is lower, it would just mean their value rises because of the ratio between supply and demand changing. His solution doesn't scale either. In our current system, most people will always be 9-5ers, that's simply the reality of capitalism. The difference is, he is not proposing some quick fix to get rich, for the reasons I mentioned above. Just think about this for 10 seconds and it will make sense to you. If nobody was selling dirt, because nobody knew dirt was valuable, and then some guy comes along making you pay money so that you can sell dirt, sure you might be able to sell dirt for money, but only as long as most people are unaware of the fact that you can sell dirt. If the aquiring of dirt is easy, then the entire value of the business lies in you having exclusive knowledge of it existing, because everyone can go outside and collect some dirt. So, by the virtue that someone is trying to sell this idea to the masses, selling dirt will become worthless. The more accessible the knowledge, the less valuable the knowledge. How is this so difficult to grasp? Because Destiny is correct about this, it doesn't take that much brainpower to realize this.

@KH2 The reason why Leo is saying this kind of advice doesn't scale is because, the more people you teach to do the things you are doing right now, the less valuable your service and strategy becomes. Being a lawyer or a doctor is a good way to make money, because so few people are lawyers and doctors, and because the demand is stable. If everyone were to become a lawyer, lawyers would make a lot less money. The reason why these kinds of things are so valuable is precisely because they are not easy to do. That's how value is created in the world. The kind of strategy you are proposing only works so long as people are unaware of them. The easier it is to do, the less valuable it will end up being.

The question is, if it was not benefitial to the propaganda apparatus, why wouldn't they simply already ban Youtube? How does the current regime benefit from Youtube? And by the way, russians already use sites like Yandex. I'm not sure to what degree Google and Youtube counteract propaganda in Russia, but I do know the degree to which having these actors on these platforms is damaging to the information landscape in the west. These platforms are intentionally used to destabilize our societies, which in my view is the biggest challenge we face in the 21st century.

Well yes some red flags are valid, I'm not saying you should just date everyone.

Not my intuition at all, I think he is hyperselective and the way he has framed things, at least in the past because I haven't watched many of his latest videos, was pretty selfishly motivated.

Yes, I very much disagree with the idea of red-flags and being kind of over-cautious. Leo advocates for this idea, and yes it is an effective survival strategy, but I think it kind of is communicating the wrong things on a large scale. I don't want everyone to be evaluating each other by random metrics, that in the end are probably largely irrelevant to the way they would live together. Obviously one doesn't have to be unwise about it, but I think looking at relationships as a vehicle of growth for both individuals, is important. And this is not just about romantic relationships. I think on a larger scale, because of modern technologies, we can pick and choose our friends, and we can easily push out "dysfunctional" people altogether by labelling them toxic and so forth. But that will not really fix the issue, people will just get more isolated, more dysfunctional, and everything will get worse for everyone. Instead of playing this kind of evaluation game where everyone separates into their own groups, I think we need to view connections as something that is helpful and necessary for individuals. A lot of growth can happen to individuals if they have others who help them and give them a reason to be motivated. If we tell them "Ah, you're a loser and dysfunctional anyways!", we are just further pushing them away and not helping them at all, even if we could. This kind of selflessness needs to be further encouraged, contrasting todays idea of everything being about trying to fullfill one's own desires. That is incredibly myopic and selfish. It's basically the scarcity attitude we are living. By seeking those "high value" people, we are creating the problem that there are only so many of such individuals around, rather trying to create system where we create more such individuals. It just becomes a selfish rat race, where everyone wants to snatch from the top. But this completely fails to recognize that we are social animals, and that our social environments shape us. We are literally pushing people to become more selfish and lower quality.