Whatever

Seems like youve learnt some nondual jargon while here. Good for you I guess. Didnt Leo just a while ago avnowledge in a video that he has been delusional about this healing stuff?

Obiviously not claims at least. We dont know about this stuff. Just found it funny you acted like you do. Knowing this forum someone soon notices you had an emotional reaction and calls out ego. Personally I think its ok and maybe even healthy. I didnt call out your undeserved confidence in kindest of ways.

The source to claims like this: random dude on internet.

Thats the thing. Spirituality with any depth isnt just my little inner project. My insight, my state of consciousness. Why? All that shit is off the window, retreat after retreat and Trip after trip when im in contact with people close to me, family, friends etc. And when interacting with people in general. Thats where rubber hits the road indeed. And thats where shit gets complicated and not so simple and nice and blissfull. So maybe there is more to it than just trying to see it as illusion. Maybe it doesnt seem like that because it isnt. Maybe we shouldnt try to find some state of inner love where I can stay in this high bliss state and bring love and care to where its difficult. Between us.

*Has lifetime of unresolved issues with family and in relation to world. "My mom doesnt exist!" Boom! Settled. "World is an illusion!" Yesss sweet liberation! Meanwhile mom in livingroom, worried over his son wasting his life getting high and watching bald dude talking about it being virtuous af.

Whaaat??! Leo himself bypassing his issues and humanity?? No way hose!

Its saying you dont exist to flee from issues in your relations to world, yourself and others. Its denying the reality of life to free yourself of experiencing the depth and difficulty life as a human consists and to avoid working on how we treat each other and relate to eachother. Its an emphasis on highs and altered states of consciousness to avoid the nitty gritty, grimey shit here on earth. Its basically acting like issues you have arent there, arent real or are imaginary. Its dissociation masquarating as enlightenment. Its Lack of nuance and is self centered. Focusing more on desperately trying to see thru illusion of the self than stripping yourself from self centeredness to see others and in relation to other become real yourself. Duality and connection rather than non duality and disconnection. So basically close to everything promoted in this forum.

Why Zeroguy? Not trying to trick you to say wrong word in this culture of non dual jargon here. Genuinely curious what you liked about it?

Buddha didnt promote waking up from reality.. he talked about waking up TO reality . And he didnt give too much emphasis on altered states or highs for they are passing in nature and clinging on them is dukkha. This forum is pretty obivious example of how people can cling on sayd highs and lose the sight and bypass whats important and stop giving importance to those things.

Its more like Leo got bored and did 5meo. Then came back not knowing what he is talking about would be my more or less educated quess.

God isnt coffee table or anything else that is form. God is in the coffee table and everything else that is form. God is you but you are not God. Cheese is milk but milk is not cheese. Therefore you feel like human, because you are one. No need to buy into dissociation masquaradeing as enlightenment in this forum and non dual cirkles in general. Thats my view.

Its a difference between fate and calling. In fate life kinda happend to you, including your choices and since thats the case nothing to do, no responsibility. In other, you are the the one who has to make choices, take responsibility and agree to be human in complex world of relationships and multiple importances. With paths that differ and one is better than another. I know this kind of talk isnt politically correct spiritual jargon in this forum but I think its important reminder. Its my understanding that the way practiced and preached here has brought multiple people to suicide. Dont wish to free people from responsibility that your actions might part take on someones decision to commit one in future.

Because it free's you from all responsibility. Its a same sexiness than there is in calling everything illusion and claiming there is no self. Its a copout. I have no free wil, therefore... Implications and ramifications of these beliefs can be huge.

This place is a dream. Only a sleeper considers it real. Then death comes like dawn, and you wake up laughing at what you thought was your grief. -Rumi. This place is for real. Only a lover of dreams does not dare to see the depht. Then death comes like a thief and robs your call to weep with the children of grief eating their last meal. -Whatever

My Lord, I dont want anymore a spirituality that just seeks peace of mind. I desire The kind of spirit that helps me to see The victims of My and Our ways of living and doesnt leave me in peace untill ive found ways to help and comfort them. I pray For spirituality that doesnt concern itself with perfect states of awareness thru which I become one with everything. Instead I pray for awareness of My relativity of everything and My relationships to others, to World, to myself and to God. I dont care For "how am I doing?" And "how Will My enlightenment unfold" privaticed and indivitualised Solo project spirituality, because I dont want to Lose touch on local, national and international responsibility, that spirituality which prays "thy Will Be done on earth". I pray For Spirituality that doesnt mean losing My selfhood and drowning into oneness but The kind that helps me Lose My self centeredness. Kind that helps me to recognise myself in relation to you, to My enemies, to God and to whole world. In those relationships im Also recognised by others and My trueness is tested and proved. I pray For Spirituality that isnt about emptying My mind off of anything but facing myself and others with real and mercifull eyes. Therefore Im not gonna shut Down My toughts but try to recognise My deluded ways and learn to think toughts and intentiona that serve Life and those around me. Let different meditative states Be only resting places of My Life. So I can get rest and calm Down in them but dont let them or psychedelic highs to be pinnacles of spirituality. Far from it. I do recognise The Core of My being in wordless silence but that becomes True also in midst of work and suffering. Save me from spirituality that is focused on Beyond. Let it Be instead real, whole and interactive living with all that is suffering, cursing and thanking in this world. So My spiritual home isnt Beyond anything but right here with you and people I live with. I pray for Spirituality that isnt concerned on reaching great hights but spirituality that wants to serve small and feeble. Infinite and timeless is here right now, in My normal Life,My Kids, My wife, friends and strangers whos eyes remind me of command "thou shall not kill" . What spirituality is For you? Do you feel desire to argue with My views? Lets do that

Apple fruit

Tell who?

What do you see?

Hey all, Around two and a half years back I was very much into becoming enlightened. I was following multiple teachers like Mooji, Eckhart Tolle, Adyashanti and Sadhguru. I had had positive experiences with taking psychedelics like psilocybin mushrooms and LSD before I got into spirituality. After I got into spirituality I sought after mystical experiences on psychedelics, I added N,N-DMT to the psychedelics I would occasionally take. I found Leo and through him Martin Ball who confirmed my notion that psychedelics can act as a shortcut to enlightenment. I was desperate to become enlightened and did not want to meditate for decades to enter a non-dual state of consciousness. I read Martin Ball's books, believed that he was in fact enlightened and decided to follow his advice and do 5meo. My experience on 5meo was painful, weird and not at all the way Martin Ball or Leo said it would be. There was not really a release of any kind. I did feel loads of energy rush through my body and I also shaked and moved a lot but there was nothing good or nice about the experience. It was generally very uncomfortable to do it. I had a strong conviction that the drug was effective as I was quite invested in that belief system I had taken up so I did not really question it for a while. If I would have to guess now I think I vaporized the drug on about 10 different occasions over the course of half a year and did a high dosage on most of them. I also took other psychedelics like mushrooms, LSD, MDMA and regular DMT from time to time during this period. The physical, mental and emotional repercussions of my psychedelic use were enormous during and after this period. I had a fairly normal and okay life before I started doing this which became seriously broken. I will sum up the major issues that I faced during the initial 6 months of drug use and the period of 1.5 years of recovery that followed: I had stomach that would constantly be extremely painful, I would constantly produce too much saliva, I would twitch and make weird movements all day long, I could not eat normally anymore, my sense of smell and taste went away, my vision became bad, I was not able to interact with other people in a normal manner anymore and my brain felt like it did not work properly. I experienced tremendous amounts of pain and suffering. In the beginning I thought that it was normal, Martin had said that this would happen. It did not ever make me feel like my ego was going away though and eventually I realized that I messed up. The road to recovery has been long and painful but things are looking okay now. I am sharing my story because I feel like it makes sense to. Cheers

I agree with what rounder sayd. The emphasis here on tons of pointless concepts and mental understanding leads to very unhealthy and unnecessarily complicated approach toward path and yourself. Like ego is a little weesel and your mission is to be clever and outsmart it..

I could tell you the same thing. Lot of conversations here seems to be about one upping the latest poster with non dual copout and pretend you have clear view instead of doing any honest reflection on issue at hand. Like what did this comment from you contribute to this conversation? And why was it worth saying instead of walking the walk yourself?

I think its very healthy to question this. There is extremely strong confirmation bias around 5meo in this forum and for Leo and others it would be a huge scary move to admit that it isnt as effective as assumed and can lead to shit ton of issues (not basing this only on Martin but to friends who has had horrible time after using it) . As far as I know Martin Ball was only one who was enlightened via 5meo use and honestly looks more likely that he was in weird, convincing psychedelic state instead.

No problemo!

He is the king of 5MeO and written books about it. Leo interviewed him due this reason. He has done 5meo thousands of times and people assumed he is enlightened. Everyone is talking about him because he is still suffering greatly regardless.

Damn u got me there