Whatever

Im saying when one relates to everything as a meaningless joke, one isnt laughing anymore. Speaking for myself, after I dropped obsession with non duality and started to let relationships, other people and serving others mean something again life became heavy with meaning and multiple importances. One path is better than the other and I need to be carefull which I choose. Thats life lived with care. And thats life seen as real. As real as it gets. Only a lover of dreams doesnt dare to see the depht of it.

I tend to not agree on a lot with people on this forum but think here you are on your way becoming what you are fighting against. "You wouldnt know unless you are one" kills any dialogue between you and others and dismissess any attempts to understand eachother. It also assumes moral high ground simply because you found a opressed minority to belong to. This could be any ethnicity, feminism, disability etc. This is the turn culture has taken, being victim has become a power position. Jesus sayd that "he who is without sin shall cast the first stone", nobody threw stones that day on a victim in center of a lynch mob. Now rocks are thrown to all direction from the center and by stating perfect victimhood, you also conviniently free yourself from any responsibility. Your a victim, what can you do, right? This is quite counterproductive for any real cause you might have. Creating safe places from differrnt ideas, trigger warnings etc. Treats traumatised people like they are special protection areas that needs to be isolated from the scary world. But this doesnt prepare them to scary world. Their trust in their ability to to co operate with scary challenging world needs to be restored instead. Thats what I think anyway.

Yep. Its funny how when everything becomes a joke you aint laughing no more.

No, never listen to anyone who is belove you. They can never teach you anything. Only listen to Leo and maybe people he approves.

What are you talking about? Leo literally sayd that and he is God.

I had similiar awakening before I stopped watching Leo's content. Thing is that when people watch these kinds of gurus and spiritual teachers, they tend to be very open for power of suggestion and generaly not too disagreeable. Especially when the teacher tells you to ignore any toughts of criticism as they are simply your ego, you arent getting what he says, you arent yet one of them. Then you buy that and over your own common sense start to taking these "radical ideas" in. "God is love. God is everything. Therefore rape is love. Nothing matters. Murder is love. I (Leo) am God's (tm) perfect narcicist, you are me, you just arent getting it. Try to get it. Im more deeply realised than Jesus and Buddha. Dont you want to be one of us? Follow me." Id say dont ignore your dream. Ignore the dude trying to bypass the point and lighten up the reality of the situation by making dumb gay jokes.

Thou shall not kill. That law of God is written in the eyes of another. The one you would crucify verbally or physically, one esy or another without seeing it. It is God we hurt when we hurt others.

Think Leo in one episode sayd that if it was up to him, he would put 5meo in water supplies so you could get it in your tab water. So I suppose as soon as you are old enought to drink water

Because it can also be the opposite of those things. Some people even think rape is love, so some rules were needed for such people. But with laws abstractity of morality is lost more or less.

Don think you got my point.

Thought being _just_ a thought to you has value judgement and an attitude (arrogance?) Baked into it. Thoughts are thoughts.

Why do you have to assume non duality to be true? Why cant you go about your spiritual practice with open mind and see where it takes you, even if it is different from Leo's ideas? To give you, God, duality and non duality freedom to unfold naturally in direction that it does and feels true to you rather than forcing it to be non dual and disregarding stuff if they threaten non dual context. At the beginning of meditation I pray to set intention. "God, Here I am, investigate my mind, heart and soul with your mercifull eyes and make me visible. Let your sacred will be done in every cell of my being and let me be acting out of your will only. Free me from any desire that goes against your will, for that is my deepest desire as well. Make me a vehicle of your peace and love into this world." Then I meditate. Sometimes I keep praying if something wants to be expressed. This strenghtens love relationship I have with God and sometimes, like lovers do, we lose ourself into eachothers gaze.

Yes of course. He is the moderator, the highly enlightened being with deep insight about your inner life.

Maybe he didnt have actuallzed.org (tm) beliefs in place. Pre existing beliefs probably affect psychedelic experiences and for sure their interpretations after.

He has done bunch of psychedelics.

Telepathically communicated doesnt ring true, then again I dont know what you mean by it. First years I was just desperate to get into that state of nothingness since I viewes thing thru non dual lense (read Tolle and stuff back then). I kinda forgot about love part, let alone becoming human part and loving others, tought that was just unfortunate mistake that I came back to be me and was obsessed with non duality and tried to tune my experience toward that direction. Then after some years was more on a bliss trip as I had intense kundalini energy going for few years and tought I need to purge all impurities out of me, became very sensitive to everything and everyone. Got obsessed with getting back to that stage of love. Then some years of doing nothing and "purging" went by and I found myself quite burnt out and jaded on suffering. For years now I couldnt have fooled myself with Tolle's kind of views regarding suffering. God was not great nor was everything His will. He was actually very easily stomped on and forgotten, ridiciloud and crusified in suffering others. Scapegoated and killed in order to remain cathartic peace. A lot like in here peoples problems are seen as "so called problems" and their suffering is ridiculed and selfhood scapegoated rather than being a midstop for love to be shared. Growing to see these victim producing, scapegoat reguiring dynamics in world and in myself is whats been pulling me out of self centeredness. Started to see Jesus's story differently too. Dont think he was promoting solely some states of non dual awareness. He obiviously didnt come to be sacrificed to change God's attitude toward human but human attitude toward God. He allowed himself to be scapegoated and crucified to reveal to us that God (love) is complitelly non violent and reguires no sacrifices, revenge or blood. Bringing responsibility of violence projected to will of God back to us. Showing that its God who suffers as human, with human abd among human. And everything we do to for other we so to him. So to say rape is love and everything happening in world is will of God is obivious perversion of love to me. This can only been perverted in this way by stopping to be in relationship with God and claiming Godhood to oneself, assuming that ones own will is God's will. This is envy in essence "I want to become you even if it costs my selfhood". Envy I think is perversion of "I want to follow you and become like you". Anyway, with these things seen im challenged to become the endstop to reactivity and competitive, envious desire that leads to scapegoating, sacrified violence and sacrifice. Dynamics present in myself, forgiven and now challenged to do the same myself to others

Yea, mine is just inclusive of toughts, history, desire and reality of others.

Everyone has experience. Everyone perverts that experience and its interpretations especally when talking about it to others. People want to be seen in certain ways. You wanted to be seen as someone who preaches to me about my experience pointing smth out, preassuming that what you happen to experience and what you interpret it to mean in relation to all of reality represents highest truth. That im not buying.

No clue what it means for you for it to work. Trip heavily affected and in line with ideas youve heard from Leo before you started tripping? I did it when Leo was still talking about picking up chicks. Complite timeless nothingness without even sensory experience present. Then that void suddenly being filled with deepening love (after that trip I couldnt buy atheistic nor materialistic worldview I had). As that love deepened for what id describe as eternity, suddenly there was tought "I love you" (my girlfriend). After that, in that same deepening ocean of love my sense of self was slowly being built around that love relationship. Now the world came back with its shapes and I saw my room again. Some would say that this was the end of trip and for years I tought that is the case and that the point of spirituality is to get back to such state. Over the years ive started to see and interpret it differently, yes essentially I am a tought of God, an as that tought appeared God started a relationship with me. I dont see such toughts as indifferent attitude as you and so I interpret them differently. Also the trip ending and life continuing with challenges and suffering wasnt only the outcome of trip ending but also that love deepening. With a sole purpose for me to love others. "Love one another as I have loved you". That seems to me infinitely more difficult and revarding as keeping on getting high to try to get rid of myself to become God. Thats like Elon Musk not really digging us grimey hopeless, hard to love people here on earth and planning on moving to mars. So stretching myself daily in service for those in need I rid myself of self centerdness and in relation to those others I become my true self stronger by the day for we are like mirrors to eachother. During Meditation and psychedelic period I had not enought desire to help others, they were illusiory and just blind to how their ego causes all suffering (no communital or relational aspect or any other nuance there). I was just focusing on my experience and awareness expanding. Not finding myself anywhere. Yet I managed to remain very self centered. Giving away my inner peace in order to be present FOR others and serving something bigger than myself like that, serving God in those who are in need feels just expotentially more true to me. That way im not becoming an end stop to love, mercy or forgiveness like when I tought spirituality is about states of realisation but im challenged to pass it on. Forget hell, being challenged to love as ive been loved, thats horrible. Especially if I dont take the easy way out and call this life, others, and our suffering illusory. Ps. And thank you for not preaching. Idk why you tought you were in position to do that anyway even if I was in hights of spiritual perfection like you. Expressing your experience, your views, interpretations and ideas is conplitelly ok and im glad to hear about them. But you speaking with an authority of existence itself? Pfft..

I just disagree just because one experiences something mystical that seems absolute that he stating it as absolute is free from dogma. Perversion happens. Yep. Not sure if for you tho. But lets say reality is a body. You are nose, leo is pinky toe and im an asshole. Asshole is not a nose. You are not Leo (despite of thats word by word what he says). So yes correction to that. Mystic also makes absolute statements on experiences he might highly pervert, especially if he gets these experiences via psychedelics. Im not a stranger to meditation (or psychedelics) thats your assumption. And you arent pointing to my experience, just trying to place yourself into weird authority position. I did bunch of 5meo and other stuff 8 yesrs ago. Been meditating anf retreating since too. Just came to see things differently as I gained nuance.

Othervise known as belief. Not seperate from the web of existence. The reason fundamentalist is certain is because he believes he is living it too. Very certainly believing that what he interprets his experience to mean is the Truth. Think that the kind of arrogance allowing to hold on to sayd dogma to assume that you dont have beliefs in place like than these others as you are a mystic. And here is that dogma. Goodbye nuance.

That preassumes that stages of consciousness is the pinnacle of spirituality. Getting high, meditating, being in bliss, having insights, being detatched from suffering ignorant people and all of world etc. Sam is involved with peace activism in a way. He is placing himself in the midst of lot of tension and even if he finds life to not have meaning or to be nihilistic for not believing in God, he finds value in loving others and actually working for well being of others, giving life meaning himself. To me thats not delusional, thats courageous. And while Sam isnt a prime example of this way of living life, he does well enought. This is much more what I see as pinnacle of spirituality than stages of consciousness. Him dismissing "spiritual experienced" as hallucinations I dont agree with. Calling them to be less real lacks allmost as much honesty as people here when they call this world, suffering and other people a hallucination, dream or delusion. What I mean with forum being more and more fundamentalistic is that there is less and less of a room or consideration of anything else than what is preached here, first by Leo, then repeatee by others. Everything is love, you are me, you are all of God, you dont exist, its all a dream, rape is love. If you dont get these "Truths" (with a capital T btw), then you arent part of us who are awake enought to get it. This is when term "us" turns from inclusive to exclusive and becomes deaf to dialogue in its arrogance. Much like dynamics within any fundamentalist circles.

Of course they do. Just that thinking that my way of thinking is THE spirituality and any opposing view is clueless is fundamentalism in the nutshell. "Reduces your consciousness" is a broad term to a degree it becomes meaningless, consciousness of what? Of me being God the whole fucking God and nothing but God as Leo preaches as he comes down from a trip? Thats dogma. Even tho I dont personally believe in materialistic world view, it seems obivious to me that Harris is in lot more open relationship with his position in the picture in relation to God, to others, to world and to himself than whats going on here. Here everywhere I go everyone is preaching this one truth stalinism, grinding away any little differences of views so there would remain only one way of seeing reality, yours. Well, Leo's. This preassumes a lot. And Sam's view seen as complitelly not spiritual (as anti spiritual indicates) is colored by that preassumption. Personally I agree that belief of myself to be seperate from universe is false. I dont agree with that meaning that I am you, or you are me tought. Just that I dont have autonomous existence that is untouched by anything. Everything is interacting with everything, and my challenge is to deside how to be part of that interaction, lovingly. God is me, but I am not God type of deal. Cheese is milk but milk is not cheese.

Different perspectives and toughts are anti spiritual... This forum becomes more fundamentalist by the day.

Because its in line with Leo's dogma.