kurt

There are indeed "spiritual energies" but the way these things are personified lie inside peoples minds, which is "reality" but only reality for them, and those things get recorded. When they are taken at face value then that is when your own mind goes to pot because you just bought into somebody elses belief system. Its like me trying to tell everyone that "Middle Earth" really exists. To use one of Leos lines: "Its just silly"

"This entity was greatly confused" No shit?

Crazy thought. Deleted

All Im saying is there is a downside to what youre doing, and Im surprised (and equally not surprised) to hear that youre not interested in listening to that. For me that is worrisome. However, youre free to do as you please are you not?

@electroBeam Ive watched all of his videos, and im talking about the teachings, not him. Lets stick to the facts leccy. The teachings are what I watch, the teachings have more holes in them than a wife beaters vest. Please. Thank you.

Your degree of open mindedness thwarts your process toward enlightenment by exploring things that have nothing to do with realization. You can go off in all kinds of tangents and miss the essence of the process. Been there, done that. And lastly, if you are not enlightened yourself, why are you creating a path for people? For all we know you could be barking up so many wrong trees because you missed the essence of the process. Why cant you just encourage people to find decent teachers, and then provide supplement advice? Are you not getting little too big for your boots here? Leave enlightenment to the experts who are realized.

Thanks, I resonate with this.

His message is dont challenge yourself, sit on your but and accept reality (your own demonic impulses) and do whatever the "fuck" you want. Because in contrast to actualized.org (with whom he is competing for viewers) it FEELS better than having to do any real psychological work on yourself. You need to understand some of us have been in this game for a long time, and have made considerable leaps and bounds and have been cornered by all the johnny come latelys in town. He attracts lazy young people who want to get their kicks for free and disengage their thinking minds. Its not an enlightenment teaching im afraid. Sorry, but it just isnt, anybody can read a few mooji books for long enough, have a non dual realization and think they are realized. It really does not work that way, despite their level of intelligence.

You just proved my point very well. Its a matter of personal choice, but the way you dress enlightenment up is that all this extra curricula is necessary, even desirable. Which is a little bit misleading because it actually takes people away from realization, all this extroverting the mind toward sense objects and ideas. Enlightenment is realizing your true nature, the rest is just education. In fact, if people want enlightenment proper they need to adopts a specific worldview for a number of years, there is a whole psychological programme too, path specific. That takes most of your time and energy. Its all or nothing.

I agree, I've watched Raileys videos and his teaching "get out of your head and into your senses" is not enlightenment teachings, it looks like mere therapy for the ego.

No, the more you read books the more you read books. If you want to find a spiritual practice that enlightens you, take your pick. There are hundreds of complete nondual schools churning out enlightened people by the dozen that have been working for centuries. You want railey and mooji and you want to discuss it on actualized.org forum. Thats what youre doing, youre not going for realization, youre just doing this. Come on, get real

It matters to you, but it does not equate to enlightenment, it equates to having a bunch of knowledge and an open mind. But open mind is just a very narrow personality trait, it means nothing, its an archetype, but the way you dress it up you tell people that this is the be all and end all, like everyone needs to become the next ken wilber. You know, ken wilber is not even self realized, and hes a recluse. Nobody but he knows why, but I doubt he has much interest in living life because hes just conditioned himself to be an academic. Your vision reminds me a lot of his work, which has actually been a massive flop as it just appeals to thats very small section of people who thirst for book knowledge on things that dont matter much. Most people are looking for freedom from limitation and to get on with living their lives. And Leo, for someone whos supposed to be so open minded, its very difficult to have a conversation with you, everyone is wrong is your eyes. Ive never seen you once agree with someone unless you backed their opinion already. All I see you do is arge your perspective.

@electroBeam Yes, you need to understand what enlightenment is, and do specific practices to get the mind prepared. None of it entails reading twenty million books or doing excersise about beliefs. All beliefs drop when you understand who you are in relation to everything else. Then you can get on with living your life, which is supposed to be the point. Whats the point of all this if youre going to sit at home reading books all your life?

@Leo Gura The chief reason 99% of people are not enlightened is because not everybody wants enlightenment, or are ready for it. And reading 3000 books about the inner workings of the minds of other peoples experiences does not make you enlightened, it makes you very knowledgable about a lot of different topics. but as long as you keep extroverting your mind towards these topics your self is continually deluded into imagining there is some experiential solution waiting out there.

@rush Just notice it, You said "Im being hard on myself" which means your "I" is invested in the world of relative phenomena - aka youre identified with thinking, aka you dont know who you really are. Relegate it to "not self" and then have a word. You need to treat your mind like a child, be patient and educate it all the time until it begins to do what you want it to do.

@avk123 If you want to be loved, then learn how to be happy. Thats it. Its not a science, and the more you make it a science the more you screw it up because people want to be around you because how you make them feel, not because of how you want to come across. If there is one thought in your mind concerning how to be, or how to come across, then you will come across like a jerk. Believe me, all people sense it and find it unattractive. Im not trying to be cold or a jerk, just letting you know how it is. Now, when people say just be yourself, this is what they mean. If you want to have people in your life then you need to stop looking to get people in your life. You need to stop thinking you are a particular kind of person also, because when you do that you limit yourself to that and guess what, yes, people can sense it and it puts them off you. Every thought in your mind that is concerned with self is going against you. Every thought concerned with other also goes against you. The only thought in your mind should be creative thoughts working out how to have fun in the moment. Any thought that is made into an identity and you will get blown out (either blatantly or politely they will move on, because youre being a jerk when your mind is being used to uphold an identity). So how to get out of this dilemma? Figure it out. You already understand if youre wise, that what I just said is true, you know its true because you have met people who are concerned with this stuff and its made you feel uneasy. So just using your own experience you should already know how to treat people. Treat them the way you want to be treated, and if you dont like people who need to study realtionships and who play games then stop doing that yourself. Only losers have such a low opinion of themselves that they need to study relationship techniques. Nobody cares what you can do, they only care how they feel around you, and they want to interact with people who are not so neurotic that they feel they need to do all this stuff to manipulate the situation. Seriously, think about it. Your problem is that you have bought into the dating industry and now are brainwashed by their alpha male story. You know what? When normal people talk about these guys they laugh, because these guys are idiots who are so empty inside that they think all these techniques and mindsets are needed. But they arent. The guys who are killer with women are just not thinking all the time about how they come across, thats all.

@Deepak sadhwani If you really want to understand awareness, then yes the Gita is for the likes of us regular people who need a personification in order to reveal nondual awareness to us. If you have the cash, then I recommend this, its incredible. Swami Dayanandas Magnum opus. Believe me, you wont be able to get it just by reading the Gitas verses, its needs to be unfolded and taught to you so that you dont misunderstand it.

You dont need drugs to experience that, you just need to understand that you are already that. Try it, put your mind on the thought "I am awareness" and if your mind is not deluded by likes and dislikes you will see nondual vision. As long as you think youre a person and you need to experience this then your mind will go for the experience like a dog chasing its own tail.

I know you said by, but for the benefit of others, just want to clarify what im saying, because youve deflected my point by misunderstanding it. The western approach to spirituality is nothing but a development of a dualistic "goody two shoes" personality out to transform society and the ills of the world...(can you sense the duality in these teachings?). Real enlightenment is about understanding that you don't need to change in order to be free, that you always were free, and that everyone is already enlightened, that there is nothing wrong with the world, never has been, never will be. You dont need to stop thinking and that you were never neurotic, that all is well. Id say people are better off with real enlightenment rather than this "detachment" from mind that we over here take to be spiritual enlightenment. Its not casual, its just silly Buddhist stuff.

Aslo steve, you havent noticed that youre using techniques that are ripped off from old school methods, and are now asking how these things work. And when I come along and tell you how they work you dont want to know. Thats cool to question, but understand if you want to just fix up your psychology, then buy Nethanial Brandon Six Pillars, and dtich the hodge podge minimalist living. Thats for enlightenment, if you dont want realization then stop doing the enlightenment stuff. Well, actually, if you want enlightenment then go to the source and get taught how to become enlightened with the complete system, and stop whining that a little bit of Tolle mixed with a little bit of Actualized.org isnt helping.

Yeah, a management of ones neurosis. Using spirituality to manage ones neurosis is a really bad idea. Reallybad. Better to hit rock bottom and start again, proper teacher, proper methods, because it works.

Steve, you missed my point. It doesnt matter what the state of your teacher is, what matters is can they teach you how to get there? Any person can drive a car, but not everyone can be a driving instructor and hep you pass your test. I wouldnt be so sure about the major paths being hard on yourself. Most of it is about educating you on how to live properly so that you attain realization properly. Its not an indoctrination, its a very well thought out system of the human mind, the cosmos and reality and most of the modern teachings are taken from it. But the bits the modern teachers left out are bits that sounded too archaic, they were not specialized enough ti understand what was being taught, and threw out very important practices. If you do your homework you will realize that there are a ton of dualist notions lumped into todays teachings that confuse you. Im spending too much time on this discussion.

I think even Leo is now talking about how deluded Tolle is. But that isnt done to help you figure out whats real, its being done to support his new claim that studying 3 million books about all the religions on earth is the way to get enlightenment. Which is a very silly idea, if you know what youre talking about. Studying different religions just confuses you, because they all have different ideas of what non duality is. None of them agree with eachother. This notion that they are all the same is a fairly new belief https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy I think this is what Tolle bought into when trying to understand what happened to him.

@stevegan928 Enlightenment is hard and fast understanding that you are not a person, you are God, and that the "person" and the manifest creation is nothing but a projection in your mind, it still appears, but is understood as unreal. The fruits of enlightenment are freedom from the person, the world, time, space, duality, the notion of "others" suffering. It is freedom from experience while experience happens. Its the understanding that the only thing that is real is "I" and that this "I" is the awareness in the same in all others, therefore ultimately there are no "others", there is only "I" contrary to appearances. No, I'm not enlightened, never trust anyone who says their "enlightened", ultimately there is no enlightenment because there is only "I". The thing is, you cant be any more authentic than understanding you are God. No more fronts, no more identifications. You will still express this through your material vehicle, but you wont be bound by it. Im just saying modern teachers wont get you there because most of them dont have great teachings, they are helpful, but they dont get you enlightenment. Remember Tolle never practiced any of his teachings, he cobbled them together. He just woke up one day "enlightened", didnt he? But its still suspect, because if he was actually realized properly, then he would not be selling the teachings he sells, because they would not make sense to him. Thats my opinion anyway. Better go with the hardcore stuff, the new age stuff leaves a lot of important things out.

This is not true. The ego is not thinking. The "ego" is the sense of self created by conditioned likes and dislikes, desires and fears. Its a very very small part of the chain of causation. Surrender is a process of the intellect using non dual vision to gradually reprogramme the likes and dislikes so that the mind naturally rests in the vision of nonduality (spiritual purification) - the fact that there is nothing to resist in terms of everyday fears and desires. Once nonduality is established in the mind, there is still desire, but the desire is for harmony rather than egoic resistance. The ego is still there, but its seen as a notion in awareness and not mistakenly taken as the person. The enlightened mind is surrender and the way the mind achieved this is through using the intellect to neutralize the egos binding likes and dislikes.