kurt

Cult

@Jani It's something to be aware of as "not-self". It's just another object for you to look at, accept and not worry over, because like all things it's just an experience and subject to change. Twenty minutes a day is fine, as long as you do something meditation wise while you're going through this temporary glitch. The motivation will rise again, and then fall It's all good, don't worry - you don't stress about thoughts coming and going during a meditation, do you? Well, this is the same, treat it the same way. * And no, it's not about giving anything up, as long as your lifestyle is conducive to contemplation (not creating havoc in your mind) you're good to go. All the usual things apply, diet, exercise, drama free companions. The ancient rishis of india had lives, were married, "renunciation" just means your meditation time, and time spent looking for wholeness where it can be found - here and now.

I wouldn't do that, but I'm sure God will deliver what is appropriate for the situation?

hahahahahahahahah nice one

Everything is fine the ways it is. "Doing" just doesn't equate to "deficiency". You can still add something to the creation if that's what life has planned for you in this moment, but your sense of doership is cancelled, its just life acting through you, all you are essentially is an instrument, but an enlightened instrument always acts in harmony with life because life is non dual. However, if the instrument is breaking dharma then there is something not right with that persons enlightenment, because you can only hope to gain something from breaking dharma if you are still a dooer with an agenda. Beautiful and meaningful? Point me to where beauty and meaning are actually located please. I bet you cant

.

This is none of the enlightened persons business. The "world" is a perfectly balanced system and karma is being facilitated fairly and justly. Sure but again, you cannot clear another persons karmic account, so it does not matter in the least what effects you have. The only reason you have an effect is because they judge you to be either positive or negative according to their own illusions, the fact is awakened people are just in harmony with life, there not special nor do they actually have those effects on others, it only seems like they do from the dualistic perspective. I dont know what this means.

I did not look at the content because I didn't want to be influenced by it. But I see what you mean. Getting more green is a dharmic action and conducive to inner peace for sure! But I would not correlate that with world peace (if that is what anybody would be going for). I say world peace would be a bit more tricky because meddling in any large scale way means you might gain something for somebody, but there will be an equal loss perhaps seen or unseen. The problem is even though you will be free of karma as it happens, others wont, so I say it's just look after number one (because that's what all of us are doing anyway) and just sick to what is appropriate for the present moment situation. What else can one do?

@cozmo The truth is, there is only one person here, although it does seem like many. And yes it is selfish. You are the same, because if you look closely any attempt to become pure, or good is just for yourself. Everything is the same thing, the changes and differences are only apparent

World peace after enlightenment? This does not make sense, because enlightened people see that everything is fine already as it is.

If you want enlightenment you need rational thinking, then build on it. Rational thinking isn't conducive to enlightenment itself, but it's more functional than irrational beliefs. We're not talking intellect or material possession, were talking about qualities of mind that act as stepping stones. You might even be at orange yourself, I have no idea.

This is the kind of thinking that prohibits discrimination of what is real and what is not real. It blocks enlightenment because it's always judging things are either right or wrong, instead of being able to see what is there in front of it, how to deal with it and thus sustain peace. I'm not sure what stage this is, but its definately not dispassionate. There is no good and bad, right or wrong, there just is what is, and that's it - end of story. This is why people need to pass through orange to more reasonable qualities of mind, because certain people obviously don't get what's being taught, they just want to create their own fantasy about what enlightenment is.

All experience is subject to change, therefore is still samsara. The good news is you get it, so this is what you want, you have done the hard work

It is human nature to seek outside, it's hard wired. But I guess the end of the road is the understanding of the zero-sum nature of seeking? Eventually will come a time when the desire to experience will be converted into the desire to understand. In the spiritual world is full of stories about experiencing enlightenment and oneness, its natural because its a natural progression from seeking worldly objects. However, sadly there is still another dark night to go through with the spiritual object seeking.

@Neo You don't need ego death, just stick with the meditation, keeping the mind clear, self "experiences" are just the self reflected in the subtle body, as long as you know what enlightenment is and don't mistake it for some transcendental experience and therefore keep chasing experiences (creating more desire) and just apply the knowledge on a moment to moment basis, the identification will break. I don''t think the dualistic thoughts go away, it's more of a permeation into the personality. I don't actually know what ego death is, it sounds like some mystical thing, I can't tell you if it's got anything to do with liberation. Liberation is just the solid knowledge that "I am awareness", the ego knows it's true nature, so the need and fear of objects collapses and there is just being rather than becoming. I do know there are about 101 definitions of "ego" floating about.

Not sure what you mean. Could you re-phrase?

Mmmm, no. lol This is assimilation of self knowledge. Enlightened people have an ego and can only experience themselves (like everyone else) in the subtle body. The difference is that once the insight is assimilated the belief in duality is gone. The experience of duality remains, it has to, otherwise you cannot function. An analogy I find useful is imagine you grow up on dessert island completely isolated from the outside world. All your life you have watched the sun rise and set and you firmly believe this is how things really are (you had no reason not do doubt your ignorance). Then one day along comes a helicopter and drops off a scientist and the scientist informs you that despite your belief in the the sun rising every morning and setting every evening the sun is in fact not actually rising and setting, the real situation is the world is orbiting around the sun and we only see an appearance of rising and setting from the perspective of the ground. Regardless of the facts of the situation, the appearance remains the same, the only thing that has changed is the rock solid belief in the appearance - it is known to be only an appareance. If you understand what it is, and your experience verifies it this is enough for realization. The only task now is to keep uprooting the doubts when they come.

@Annie No problem, I was deliberately being harsh.

I'll rephrase it: Orange is the top of the food chain i society. It's where society is. On the map its not high, but green and yellow and turquoise there is hardly anybody inhabiting that structure, so in reality orange rules. What im saying is (if you want spiritual integration) you must reach turquoise, and to reach turquoise you have to have actually developed orange, because without orange there is nothing above it. Forget about 3rd tier, its only potential development based on an evolutionary yogic perspective. Hope this makes it clearer?

@Anlib Its ok Study it closer. I said it's the highest in the world (formal op), not the highest stage on the map. After orange and green (green which you want to get through asap if possible) there is hardly anyone in society that is past it. So that means your model of reality is expected to be orange at least. But the main point is we can't get to know ourselves if we have not lived out orange desires and also more importantly orange qualities. The orange qualities set the stage for further understanding for spiritual knowledge to be assimilated.

@Anlib @Anlibno lol. You need to go through it. Most of it is getting the irrational beliefs out of your head. Orange is the highest level of development known in the world, appart from a few freak shows in the spiritual world. But to get to orange is a great achievement. And you can't become enlightened without it (the mental aspects). Spirituality is for grown ups who have good social standing and financial security, you need these qualities of mind to understand who you are, otherwise you won't get it.

Shit happens. Shit doesn't happen. Shit happens again....life

Maybe your meditation methods are not right for you? I seriously recommend a sequence of practice, it is potent as hell because meditation is better with preperation. You can pick up the techniques on the internet. Ask your Self to reveal itself and for a good mediation. Couple of deep breaths to "open" the meditation. Body scan. Pranayama Vipassana Witnessing Offer your actions to life for the sake of life itself. Close You only need half an hour to an hour each day.

@Chris40 Nice bro, me too, I'm always greatful to my teachers and mentors. Nice and thanks

You're trying to conceptualise something that you don't know will ever happen.. You don't know the future, it's an idea. So to become aware of ego? It's a task for now and the next few months. To forget about all else for a moment (you can become awakened quickly) and just focus on what you are doing. Conceit? Looking for things to make you something? If you can stick with the process and dis-identify then you will find a motivation that is coming from formlessness, your true nature. You shouldn't conceptualise that because that is more ego, more making spontaneous boundlessness into another "I". It's scary I know to relaize there is a void, that you have to admit you don't know who you are. But if you trust enough to enter the process you will see that it's not really a void This is where I'm at right now . I hope it rubs off on you.