Chew211

If I were to sum it up in one word: Surplus. A masculine man had a surplus of time, energy, money, friends, sex, etc. The surplus he has is an indicator of masculinity. Big muscles, a relaxed demeanor, luxury goods, and emotional resiliency are all gained from Surplus, and serve as its referent. Masculinity itself, as pure substance, does not exist, it is only proven retroactively. If you have surplus, in other words, if you are masculine, then you are able to change present circumstances in favor of new syntheses. When you approach a woman, you are attempting to overthrow her current life course by asserting yourself as a factor. You present an opportunity to change her present circumstances.

That’s usually a post-sex question. In most cases, it’s best to not bring up sex straight up, because that usually kills the sexual tension. She seemed like she was down to have sex. You were the prude by desexualizing the situation by bringing up sex.

You don’t HAVE to be celibate, although traditionally it’s implied. The issue isn’t with sex, but with attachment to it. And realistically most guys aren’t going to get anywhere near spiritual growth.

NoFap just ends up being extended foreplay with yourself. What you want to do is just watch sexual thoughts and impulses as they come up and just watch them. If you do that, overtime that sexual longing will be longing without an object, which is the fuel for spirit growth. NoFap is just a materialistic version of Bramacharya, and is this perverted. It’s not about touching your dick or not, nor is it about getting rid of hornless, it’s about purifying the mind, and free that energy from being attached to a particular object.

Could you be more specific?

The Book of Pook. Because the key lesson there is that you have to go out and fail in order to get better, not sit around consuming content about Game. If you want to understand gender dynamics, study up on Lacan’s concept of the Phallus. I’ve unfortunately read all the books on game out there. That’s time I’ll never get back. Pook and some basic psychoanalytic knowledge is all the theory that you need, and then you just take action.

I think you’re the only one who’ll bother to check the books out. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on them. I actually teach Lacan and Zizek, so hit me up if you have any questions.

First off, I want to begin by saying this is a long post. It takes more than "typing your thoughts out in a few minutes" in order to challenge a paradigm and present alternatives. Brief Background: I first read the Rational Male and got introduced to Red Pill ideology the beginning of 2017. It was this year when I first dabbled in Game. The Rational Male completely changed my paradigm of relationships. It was a quick shift from my most blue mixed with immature green view of sex/romance/relationships to hard Orange. Early 2018, I went through a MGTOW phase. Late 2018 brief upshift into a stage green, hippie like view. 2019, got my head out of my ass, and started to get laid, but also the majority of the center of gravity moved back down to stage orange, and some of it went up to yellow. 2020, I started studying philosophy, critical theory, etc hardcore, which has given me more sophisticated models for looking at reality. Main Post The Rational Male is a very influential book in The Red Pill, and going through it will give you all the Red Pill fundamentals. The Red Pill community still holds the fundamentals in the book as universal truths, which is why it’s still stuck in 2013. In this post I will attack 3 of Rollo’s positions, from Lacanian (Psychoanalytic) and Dialectical Materialist positions. I will also criticize the Red Pill’s notions of masculinity and provide an alternative psychoanalytic model of looking at masculinity and femininity, and I’ll end it with a general attack on the Red Pill’s meta position. If there’s any questions you have, feel free to ask it in the thread. I will likely take time in answering questions that require a long explanation, so please don't sperg out on me for seemingly "hiding behind the fact that I am without knowledge" Muh Hypergamy This is the central tenet of The Rational Male, and by extension Red Pill Ideology. It is seen to be the cause of literally everything. On the surface the idea seems sound, and one can easily see it reflected in reality. The issue is that it confuses female ”mating strategy” in the present socio-economic circumstances as inherent to females as a part of their nature. Here’s the Red Pill worldview in a nutshell: Female Mating Strategy --> Male Mating Strategy --> Culture Essentially, the Red Pill perspective sees the female mating strategy as this unchangeable kernel which is to be adapted to. This is problematic for two reasons: 1. It’s a built in victimhood complex, because everything was/is/will be about reacting to Hypergamy, 2. It ignores/denies that material reality is what shapes our (rather flexible/adaptable) human nature, and actually thinks that it’s the other way around. We DO in fact change our material circumstances, as it is in our nature to do so, but it’s the material circumstances that’s the initial point. Here’s Reality in a nutshell: Socio-Economic Conditions <-->>> Culture <-->>> Mating Strategy Socio-Economic conditions include technological advancements, the general state of the economy, employment, social antagonisms (wealth disparity), the fact that most people are wage slaves who get their surplus value appropriated, the fact that in recent years more money has gone towards speculative investing than actual production, because it’s more profitable, etc. A few examples of Socio-Economic Conditions being the root cause of Mating Strategy: Boomers had more sex and got married earlier because the economic conditions of the post-war boom allowed them to buy a house and afford children. Most of them weren’t in dating purgatory for most of their early adult life like millennials. During the Bubble-Era in Japan’s late Showa period, people were having sex left-and-right. There was also a lot of cheating going on, but more so by men, because the corporate work culture still took most of their time, and for them it was natural to enjoy the nightlife after work. The bubble popped though, and now the birthrate is low, and a lot of people (men especially), aren’t having sex. Salaries have also dropped since the bubble era, which has made starting families difficult as well. This Vaush video showing male virginity in the U.S. skyrocketed after 2008. The Red Pill doesn’t like to think about Socio-Economic conditions because they’re methodological individualists incapable of seeing the big picture, and unable/unwilling to learn complicated models of reality. What I’ve argued so far might not have disproved Hypergamy itself, but hopefully I’ve at least taken it off the pedestal Red Pill Notions of Masculinity and Femininity The Red Pill bases its theories of masculinity and femininity (which include Hypergamy) on (pseudo) Evolutionary Psychology and Behaviorism. They extrapolate on the idea that the goal of genes is to be passed down and we are mere vessels for doing that. It’s not a bad idea, and Evolutionary Psychology isn’t a BS field by any means, however the Red Pill tries to boil down all human behavior to the goal of passing down one’s genes. Nevermind that they get wrong that it’s on the level of the individual genes where the theory applies, not on the level of individual organisms-- but also, Evolutionary Psychology doesn’t explain things like fetishisms, desires that aren’t correlated with reproductive success, why there’s people that cut off their own genitals, etc. General American Psychology (the predominant Psychological authority in the world today) would dismiss anything that falls out of their framework for “normal people” as abnormal psychology. Psychoanalysis encompasses it all, and takes more things into account. This post isn’t about Psychoanalysis itself, so I’ll just stick to introducing a Freudian/Lacanian model for masculinity and femininity in the next section. The next section is an optional read for those only interested in why the Red Pill is wrong, and are not interested in alternative models. Phallic and Non-Phallic Sexuality When asked to define masculinity, the Red Pill, along with most people in general, would give a list of qualities. Even in Leo’s video How to be Man part 1, he debunks other mainstream definitions, and gives his own list. For example, one of the qualities was “icy”. Femininity is also given a list of qualities, one such quality being submissive. Obviously the issue with this is that it’s too narrow, and that masculinity and femininity have different forms of expressing itself. Psychoanalysis offers a more universal way of looking at masculinity and femininity, through the concept of the Phallus. Disclaimer: in Psychoanalysis, words don’t have fixed definitions. This includes terms like “men” and “women”. You might be a biological male who might have a non-phallic sexuality, in which case, according to the psychological model, you can be considered a “woman”. You might be a biological female, but in the context of your professional life, the psychoanalytic model will treat you as a “man”. You will see why below. Men have a phallic sexuality, and women have a phallic AND non-phallic sexuality. The more phallic you are, the more you care about numbers, size, expansion, etc. Non-phallic sexuality is a mystery-- there’s a connection to the infinite there. Phallic sexuality is easy to understand, and no one understands non-phallic sexuality. The idea that women are only into looks, money, big dicks, etc is assuming that there’s only phallic sexuality at play. The more feminine a woman is, the more non-phallic she is, and therefore the more random factors there are to her sexuality. The issue is that non-phallic sexuality isn’t observable. The more phallic you are, the more masculine you are, and therefore more engaged in metaphorical (and at times literal) dick measuring contests. The phallus is your metaphorical (and at times, your literal) dick. The phallus could be your performance in something, your strength, your skills, your money, your wife, etc. Men want to have the phallus, and women want to be the phallus. The issue is that men don’t have the phallus. Not having the phallus gives us anxiety... the technical term is castration anxiety. This castration anxiety pushes men to compensate for not having the phallus. This compensation is growth. For example, a guy can’t get laid, so he does things like hit the gym, study pick up, etc. Then he goes out into the field, and gets laid. Obviously nowadays, most guys aren’t like the men I described above. Indeed, they are less masculine. Instead of pushing themselves to grow, they cope with jouissance, which is a cycle of frustration and release from the frustration. An easy example of jouissance is porn use. Guy can't get laid, is sexually frustrated, so he consumes porn. The word jouissance comes from the French word meaning orgasm, so with porn use, you have a literal jouissance cycle. Alpha-Beta Dichotomy Some people don’t like these labels, but I’ll use them for the sake of my argument. Alpha and Beta are the two classifications of men. Alpha means you have a strong frame, you're confident, and you get laid. Beta means you're a nice guy chump, you’re at the bottom of the social totem pole, and you don’t get laid/ you're a doormat for your girlfriend/wife. I’m not going to deny that there are indeed these two general categories, but the issue is that these qualities are seen to be essential parts of an individual. It’s as if being Alpha or Beta is a trait IN you, when in fact, it’s not. It’s about where you happen to be in a socio-economic network. The rise of Beta males who can’t get laid isn’t simply because of the culture. The culture doesn’t just decide to change on a whim-- it’s affected by socio-economic conditions. The prevailing conditions for most males in post-Industrial nations are as follows: working at least 8 hours a day, due to technological advancements, more work and therefore more stress is placed on each individual culture, most workplaces and schools now train most people to be obedient wage slaves who need to be told what to do and are overly reliant on an inorganic system to regulate their social relations (think corporate work culture). Most men are Beta males because they must be in order to keep the economy running-- and Capitalism is about infinite expansion on finite mediums, and extracting surplus from workers. An Alpha is someone with surplus. Surplus time, energy, money, muscles, etc. It’s a contextual determination, so let’s say if you’re in a workplace full of nerds, but you workout, in that environment you’ll be more Alpha because you have more (muscles) than everyone around you-- adjusting for everything else, of course. Red Pill ideology is about apeing Alphas. It’s about appearing to have surplus, when in most cases you don’t. In this way the Red Pill sexual strategy is not holistic. The Red Pill is full of Beta Males. Sure, technique matters in Game. But what’s more important than Game is your infrastructure. The less of your productive hours are sapped by your employer, the more you have to build up yourself. Build up yourself, go to a place with a lot of attractive women, minimize the amount of wage labor you have to do, and boom, you’re an Alpha. LMS and Confidence Either it’s all about looks, money, status, or “just be confident, bro”. Here’s what’s wrong with LMS: Money itself doesn’t attract most women. It’s the surplus that comes with it that’s attractive. Women that are after money itself are gold diggers, who are relatively few in number. Status is context dependent, and the whole point of cold approach and Online Game is that it doesn’t matter. Also, society itself is becoming more alienated, so status matters a lot less than it did before. As for Looks, gets your foot in the door, but if you’re taking initiative after moving to a high-volume area, it’ll be impossible NOT to get laid (unless you have other issues). The issue with confidence: If you have enough confidence to take action, then that’s all you need. The Red Pill is overly concerned with appearing confident and making their approach smooth, etc. Confidence doesn’t matter as much as taking the right action is. In fact, you gotta take risks to grow, and when you’re taking risks it’s natural to not feel confident. You just gotta do it anyway. Confidence will grow as a side effect. “Just build up surplus, bro.” Rational Males The Red Pill assumes that it is free from ideology, and has an objective world view. They look down on philosophy as irrelevant BS, and consider themselves free of any psychological biases. Never mind that Rationalism and Empiricism are philosophical positions. If you have read the Rational Male or posts on the Red Pill you can easily find emotions, sentimentality, and ideological leanings. The Red Pill also assumes a position of being outside of the system. The people of the Red Pill take the position of detached observers looking at the “system”, but they don’t realize that them being detached observers is also part of the overall system. That position, along with, and going hand in hand with being methodological individuals, is the reason why they can’t change anything in the world. They think they’re gaming the system when in fact they are behaving exactly how the system wants them to behave. If being red pilled means being free from delusions, the Red Pill is not. Real red pills The following are books I recommend to get a good holistic model, in which mating strategy has a part. Trying to study mating strategy independent of everything else is a problem in and of itself. Lacan for Beginners, Phillip Hill Intro to Lacanian Psychoanalysis Sublime Object of Ideology, Slavoj Zizek Teaches and ties together the ideas of many thinkers Pretty difficult book though, I don’t recommend going at it on your own Might be better reading the other recommended books before touching this one A Companion to Marx’s Capital, David Harvey Reading the first 2 chapters of this book will cover the first 3 chapters of Marx’s Capital, which gives you the fundamentals. A lot of you have your own preconceived notions of Marx. Ignore them and read this. The Accursed Share, Georges Bataille This book is centered on surplus Read the first 2 chapters of David Harvey’s book first. Ideology and State Ideological Apparatuses, Louis Althusser about how and why the system shapes us to be the way we are Can be read on it’s own, imo, but I’d recommend the first two chapters of DAvid Harvey first Critique of Liberal Ideology, Alain de Benoist The author is right-wing, but incorporates left-wing ideas as well Again, get over your distaste of people of this political stripe, and read this

A high value man is someone who has indicators of being high value. What those indicators are depends on the social context that man is in. In one tribe in Africa, lip circumference is one such indicator. The larger the lip disc that the man can fit in his mouth, the more cattle he is given. In a highly academic school, or in studious cliques, one’s grades can be an indicator of high value. High value in and of itself doesn’t exist. There is only evidence of it. This is not to say that it doesn’t matter if one is a high value man or not. High value IS a social reality. But it is ONLY a social reality.

For the record, there is no such thing as a dictator for life in China. This is Xi’s last term. This is common knowledge.

I've thought about this too. In political groups, there's almost no spiritual dimension. There might be a religious dimension, but primarily in the context of identity. In spiritual groups, they've locked themselves away from society. Or rather, their spirituality is contained at the individual level. Usually what turns people towards sprituality are personal problems, but like you said, those personal problems exist in a social context. Alientation is built into the economic mode of production, and given that the current society is subsumed by the economy, alientation is built into social life. "Going inwards" to cope with issues that are caused from alientation doesn't help. A better solution to solve that issue is to create a semi-self-sustaining infrastucture with friends you resonate with, so you all can escape wage slavery together, and create an organic community. Spirituality would guide the foundations of that organic community. Osho's Rajneeshpuram was like this, if I'm not mistaken, but it was big enough to contain issues, but the issues were less severe than in mainstream society.

Depends on the situation. Like are you a working adult and she a university student? Does she want to pay? Are you feeling generous? Don't look for universal rules. Experiment and get an intuition of what to do.

I first got into game because I was a failure with women and unconfident. Then I was able to get laid, and was making good progress with approaching before corona happened. So I've stopped game and focused energies elsewhere, and even though things have calmed down, I haven't gotten back to game yet. What I realized was that the physical pleasure of sex didn't motivate me, nor was there a desire to have a girlfriend or anything. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed spending time with the women I've been involved with, and I also enjoyed having sex-- but it was mostly an ego thindlg. It was mostly to present myself as a successful male to the big Other (the entity that is always watching you... though doesn't actually exist, but even though we know it doesn't exist, we act as if it does). Even sex itself became a performance. I did it outdoors, I did it in the car, got roadhead while driving, etc-- but that was just so I could live up to the image of an adventurous super sexual alpha male. I was never satisfied. I was happy, but there were times when I was happy when I was a virgin. Game satisfying you and making you happy and you finding the perfect partner who will be perfect for you and satisfy all your needs is a fantasy. Sex making you happy is a fantasy. Everything is bullshit. I'll still play the field, because why the hell not. It's fun. There's nothing wrong with it, and it does help with shedding ego if I don't overthink it. I'll commit to a woman when I want to have a family-- but ultimately it's settling and accepting the other person's imperfections and their inability to satisfy me completely, and also my inability to satisfy them completely. But we'll be committed to the shared goal of raising a family. 4 months ago I stopped seeing a regular friend I get intimate with so I could focus on other stuff. I still meet up with her every once in a while to have dinner, but no didily. I'm practicing celibacy for the next year. That also means no porn/jerking off. I don't have sex on my mind, and right now, doing game would be a waste of precious time. I hope this comment is of use to you. I'm just happy I got to put some stuff into words.

I recommend Twilight of the Idols to first get acquainted with him. Then Genealogy of Morals.

I second this. My world view is close to Brahmanism, but Nietzsche is important in order to root out any slave morality that will be contaminating your spiritual work. A lot of people are driven to spiritual as a means of cope. They can't get what they want in the material world, so they immerse themselves in the spiritual-- as a result they never transcend. Think of the dude who can't get laid so he decides to be a monk. I recommend reading the first essay in the Genealogy of Morals (at least) to understand what slave morality is. I'd recommend going through Twilight of the Idols first though, in order to first get acquainted with him.

1 - 3 Dating more definitely does not save time Right now I'm only seeing one, because dating is not at all a priority. It's good to have female companionship once in a while, so I'm not going full monkmode. But I'm not going pickup mode either.

I live in Japan, and I'm Indian (didn't grow up in India, but I have relatives there and been around a lot of people from India), and I'd say both places are unreliable if you are looking for some spiritual. The best bet is doing what Leo said, and guiding someone into it.

If you want to understand the real dynamics of power and human relations then read Sublime Object if Ideology as a start. If that's too difficult, read Gorgias by Plato. Or read ancient texts, like the Bhagavad Gita. There are much more insightful books that you can be spending your time on, rather than mainstream, surface level, trash. My two cents.

Quitting porn is the main thing that'll give you benefits.

Secure. My issues don't have much to do with friends, family, and lovers. Or coworkers. Or people in general.

From what I know of Hegel from reading Sublime Object of Ideology, I'd have to agree. Though Capital (or more accessibly, David Harvey's Companion to Capital) is a must read.

Marxist and ML Theory and Analysis is pretty based. However, almost all the proposed solutions involve high state control. Luckily with technology we can explore different solutions. But yeah, my general take on MLs is that they are worth studying, but not emulating, because it wouldn't be appropriate. Also, Marxism is a materialist philosophy, so it's got it's limitations there.

Gorgias by Plato is a good start.

You don't need books on specific issues. You need books to help you see the bigger picture of things. But those books are dense and difficult, not easily consumable like self help books.

Don't take words like "you're creepy" at face value. If you were actually perceived as creepy she would have noped the flip out of there.