Outer

They aren't. You're basically asking if two people's World Model is the same, which consciousness creates, and the answer is no. You'd have to have two perfect clones, atom by atom, for them to have the same world model.

I know for certain that they might be. That is because colors are created by the brain.

Feel free to contact Frank if you disagree with his conclusion: "We are self-models living in and experiencing our Model of the World"

I edited t he post, check the PDF instead, it explains the point at around p.10 and forward, that the brain creates colors out of the 3 different light the retina takes in. https://spiritualityexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Model-of-Consciousness-and-Spirituality.pdf

See: https://spiritualityexplained.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Model-of-Consciousness-and-Spirituality.pdf P. 10-36 https://spiritualityexplained.com/

You don't experience what you perceive. Red, blue and green light enters your eye and retina as three black and white images and then what you experience is the world model where there is color. So what you perceive is the same for everyone (red/blue/green light entering the retina) what the brain does is create color out of that in the world model for clear reasons. Like separating tiger fur from a green bush. That the world models are different is of course the case, for instance a schizophrenic has a different world model than you. That is due to the difference in brains.

I'm talking about neuroscience, brains, hands, cars, these are consistent. Vague feelings about love or whatever can be seen in the brain anyway. It was also impossible to figure out how life arises out of material processes, that it must be some magic "life force". Throughout history you know how ignorant we've been and still are. Your claim that dead matter cannot generate sentience is very up to debate. See for instance how you experience vision, feelings, hearing, and a bunch of senses in consciousness. It obviously has a function for the brain, and see how also what you feel or hear in consciousness changes depending on what you've experienced in the past. That is the brain updating depending on what it senses through consciousness, which is a sort of mechanism in the brain which maybe unifies or puts together a bunch of senses so you don't have to sense multiple things separately. During sleep you become unconscious the same as with anesthesia, sometimes more, sometimes less. The point is that you've now seen good arguments why the brain has something to do with consciousness. In the future I think we'll get closer and closer. I bet we'll even know what happens when consciousness knows itself in the brain. Maybe that's the Awakening (outside of DMN deactivation).

Color isn't necessary, can you think of something else? It's so unlikely that everything isn't from material processes. It's not absolute knowledge, but it's likely to be the case. What if science figures out exactly how consciousness is created by the brain? How will that change the work towards Awakening? Maybe the Self is what we are when we are human, or any other conscious being for that. In fact I think it's likely it is like that. But that doesn't change much, as long as we're human or conscious we're the Self. You are human now so you are the Self because you are conscious.

Tough bro I can't give up Neuroscience.

M from interloper sounds like something you'd listen on LSD in a college party.

So there's a deeper me than waking consciousness? A sort of objective consciousness? P.S. "Consciousness on-off switch discovered deep in brain" https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329762-700-consciousness-on-off-switch-discovered-deep-in-brain/

So is 'your' consciousness conscious of itself while "you're" asleep?

But why does the real consciousness not know itself in sleep? Why is consciousness knowing itself so related to memory? If you had dementia would you know yourself?

So you've found this I so you know where the real consciousness is and you know it?

All that is known is Outer consciousness, I do not know winterknight consciousness. How is Outer a reflection of the real consciousness? Where is it? Why don't I know it like I know Outer consciousness?

I do think that if you can convince me I will be enlightened. Where is the real consciousness?

It's rather a belief that in sleep consciousness continues and it is forever... There's consciousness now, but it's not during sleep... That's why I don't get why I can realize truth without it being a belief, I've looked and I don't see why it would be any other way. How is this consciousness a reflection of the real consciousness? Where is it?

What I mean by "Outer" is this consciousness, in this consciousness there's the thoughts, feelings, emotions, which intellectually is to a person called "Outer". Since consciousness ends in sleep I don't see why there's an Objective consciousness which I am. Independent of Outer consciousness.

Should we be open-minded that our beliefs might be wrong, for instance that this consciousness is Mine? I'm having difficulties with pertaining the sleeping state. Are you really conscious in your sleep or is that just an idea? Because I don't think you remember being asleep at all, you just remember going to sleep.

So what should I look for if not enlightened if I want to become enlightened?

That's not true. There's something valuable to learn even from a begger on the street. It's much smarter approach to life when you don't care who's enlightened and who is. Just wanting to become free from suffering and looking for answers from everywhere is a smart way to be. Then even an ant can be your guru. Whoever is of some help to you to grow. Use them. Who cares if they're enlightened. I'll correct myself in saying "before you strive to become like they [the enlightened] are".

"... Like other scientists before him who’ve experienced similar transformations – the neuroscientist James Austin, the neuroanatomist Jill Bolte Taylor, to name two examples – Weber got interested in what was going on his brain. He connected with a neuroscientist at Yale University named Judson Brewer who was studying how the DMN changes in response to meditation. He found, as expected, that experienced meditators had lower DMN activation when meditating. But when Brewer put Weber in the scanner he found the opposite pattern: Weber’s baseline was already a relatively deactivated DMN. Trying to meditate – making any kind of deliberate effort – actually disrupted his peace. In other words, Weber’s normal state was a kind of meditative letting go, something Brewer had only seen a few times previously, and other researchers had until then only reported anecdotally. ..." http://psychologytomorrowmagazine.com/jeff-warren-neuroscience-suffering-end/

You're right. First you have to verify someone's enlightenment and thereby competence before you can listen to their teachings. Gary Weber's enlightenment is verified by fMRI which sees blood flow to different regions to the brain, and he recommends Adya, Ramana Maharshi, etc. So I don't really distrust Winterknight who recommends Ramana, etc. I trust Gary and his teachings, and if it happens another person says they're enlightened and speak of similar things I don't immediately distrust them, in fact I might find them to fill in some blanks.

It's an appeal to competence and thereby authority. Not only authority. If an authority was corrupt and incompetent, you'd never want to appeal to them. But you make a fair point to not blindly trust people. It's also a bad idea to blindly not trust people. I'm arguing that just because someone says they're enlightened doesn't mean they're not, in most cases. You make the judgment call from listening and observing. - How do we know competence? We ask questions. Just like Zen people do to verify enlightenment. How do we know what to expect? It's called checking with other teachers and teachings.

False analogy.