Lynnel

The more I work on myself the more curiosities about my mind I discover : Who knew but I actually realized I have a very deep hatred for women. The point being how do you bring up your stuff to be able to notice it and to deal with it ? There are a lot of ressources on shadow work but I never found any conclusive technique let's say. So I'm looking for something that will let me notice everything sideways with myself because I seem to be oblivious to it and it's a never ending quest. I mean something more efficient than brute forcing it with a 10 hours daily vipassana practice or using psychedelics (which I'm gonna do). (Shamanic breathing does the trick for me sometimes but it's painful to do). The question is more is there something else ? Any obscure practice to do ? Any obscure book to read ? Or is it just a random sum of all those awareness developing practices ? I feel like I don't understand why I desire such and such thing - it has become very obvious while growing to green how much conditionned by orange values I am which I simply accepted as solid reality before without asking myself any questions (Thus what else could be that way right now ? ) Why do I have such and such emotions, why do I think that way, etc. I really do lack some insight into the workings of the mind.

@How to be wise Didn't like it. It's been a while since I've practiced but seemed like pointless mental gymnastics. Just doesn't fit me too well unfortunately.

Ohh that one is EASY. Be fucking glad it's not something along the lines of "I'm not good enough". Notice how being bad a math is not something you're born with. At 0 year old you weren't bad at math : it's conceptual and symbolic things you learn progressively. Usually people struggle with math because they had bad teachers and have missed some basics. Math are very linear. Don't actually even think about being bad at math : don't care about it. It's just a though. Everyone is bad at math. You're not supposed to understand anything in class because it's too fast ! I'm on top of my shit, the best student in my whole masters and very often I would lose track of what's being thaught at math/programming lectures. It's totaly NORMAL. You cannot ingest information SO freaking fast while being pressured to do so. Take your time, sit down and do your exercises. Math is very straightforward and linear : you work 2 hours a day on the problems you have and after 2-3 month you're good at it It's basically only training and it's a skill - everyone is bad at a skill unless they train.

I usually tended to avoid enlightenment all together because I didn't want my whole reality to disappear, to experience physical death so early and I've always been afraid to seeing some surnatural entities, fucking up my world entirely, spirally into an endless depression and opening pandora's box. All the practices I've been doing have been either out of suffering or for psychological level benefits, not exactly spiritual benefits. And now I'm feeling slightly stuck. On some end if the truth exists and I'm living in a lie I don't wanna be afraid of the possibility of everything crumbling. I wanna find some sort of comfort in figuring out everything for real. But I don't feel much drastic changes in my life and like "real real" results. Just gradual changes but far from the "amazing" life I wish to live. Thus I've been lately thinking about taking a Octavio Rettig retreat with 5-meo-dmt. I'm sure it can be an insanely amazing experience but I'm afraid I won't be able to handle physical death or fucking up myself completely and never being able to recover. There is a tension about living in a dream like state and finding comfort in ignorance but since I've already read this much, meditating and doing kriya yoga, seeing the materialistic limitations of orage, I feel like it's already over and I have to follow the path. To some extent I'm not identified with the body-mind and me being simply consciousness witnessing the body mind doing it's thing. (like writing this). So I'd like to ask, is it worth it ? Destroying your whole world and reality and not living in a dream anymore ? Going trough real physical death to get those realizations and insights ?

@yawning_ I've been doing daily meditation for more than 2 years, kriya yoga for almost 6 months, so I'm doing well on that front I've done other forms of yoga, some advaita vedanta teachings, some vipassana, but I'm mainly interested in growth and not enlightenement directly. The whole question is if I'm ready to take it to a whole new level by having a ego-death experience on 5meo. That's why I started this topic.

@Charlotte I mean that beliefs tend to change as a byproduct of growth and you shouldn't exactly focus on them directly. You may find for instance that you believe you are unworthy but unfortunately there is no "CANCEL BELIEF" button in your brain : you will need to do inner work and get contradictory evidence to that belief for instance for it to change and focusing on it needlessly isn't gonna help you much. You're gonna struggle pointlessly trying to convince yourself to believe something else ! Even if you know the root causes it's not easy to let go off it and it can drive you mad. The best thing I can recommend is not taking them seriously and like fear doing it anyway. If you don't believe you can do x - just tell yourself actually I have no idea what's possible or not in my direct experience so I'll try it anyway. Confidence, manliness, charisma are also such things that are something which is better seen as a byproduct of you working on yourself and NOT a direct goal or stat you need to improve.

@RabbitHole I've also been thinking about this. Yeah I'll just go for enlightenement when I have nothing else to do. The big issue is well I might be missing something really big - this whole spiritual connection you really want at green and at higher stages and a LOT of psychological benefits related to psychedelics. Which would be quite sad. @ajasatya Is is based on your direct experience ? Because Leo for instance seems to enjoy his progressive enlightenement a LOT. Also I've been dissociated from the body-mind at time so there is no such thing as "my" ego - there is just an ego happening within awareness. There is also another english speaking ego "Eckhart tolle" happening somewhere else using a mind to explain concepts. Eckhart himself just suffered until he got enlightened and he seems to be doing great. @Arkandeus Thank you for your support. So you would hold off doing something which seems too hardcore and wait for a loving date with destiny ? (That sounds a bit cheesy but I like the concept) even if I feel like this might be avoidance hmmmm. @Nahm Well I feel like since there is gonna be no more ego - there is not gonna be anymore me to experience life so no purpose to existing so it's basically like dying + it seems like it's true real physical death (not my speculation about the death of the physical). The big difference would be a permanent state where the body-mind is aware of me => I'm aware of myself and of my true nature and thus the ego is malleable and I (the body-mind) 'm will be able to change however I want, solve all psychological problems, reach deep into turquoise mastery, learn a lot of "physical" healing, etc. I was thinking about the 5-meo retreat for the masculine energy/motivation and diverse psychological benefits, not understanding the nature of reality. I'm not yet very spiritually oriented. Sorry if this doesn't exactly answer your question but thank you for taking your time to help me !

Oh c'mon. Please explain your reasoning at least

@yawning_ Well it doesn't sound that great to be honest On the other side after listening to Leo's video the whole looking at the stars thing struck me deeply as I've been this way many many times. Now I'm wondering whether everything I ever wanted was actually spirituality and not more egoic things to enjoy. @Arkandeus I really appreciate your input. How do I make the difference between egoic excuses and actually not being ready ? Usually I tend to ignore the whole thing based on the fact well if I'm not progressing it's not worth living anyway so my life is getting only worse thus I'm ready to take any risk like taking mushrooms for instance to go further. But I'm not sure about this attitude of alway "hurting" myself. On the other side will I ever feel like it otherwise ? x) This is how I imagine everything to be honest - I've always had to suffer for anything worthwhile and I consider life unforgiving and hard and unloving and something along the line of being forsaken and I do live life like an endless struggle for better so yeah that's not a pretty picture if I'm totaly honest. Yeah I don't have a positive outlook on life no matter how many lies I tell myself about being positive. Like I would describe life doing a series of thing you do not want just to remain alive. Okay I'm gonna go rant in my journal Thanks again for your help I appreciate it.

@Charlotte I honestly feel like it's one of those "magic pills" like the whole grow your self-confidence thingy while it doesn't do much for you. You gotta act trough your negative beliefs and reconsider them carefully as you get more worldview. Also the more awareness you have the better you are because you will cling less to ideas and will be able to take them less seriously.

@SoonHei Usually it goes like this : 1) Enlightenment is the most amazing thing that can happen to you it's magical and there is no more suffering and like endless benefits. 2) Enlightenment is horribly painful and you have to face endless issues like loneliness until you process them fully and and become free and then like you don't care about anything anymore you do your mahasamadhi and like you suffering trough everything for no reason whatsoever. Like all those horror stories with the dark night of the soul, enlightenement fucking up your life, etc. Depending on the people the journey itself also sounds either amazing or like hell. It's really hard to tell.

How does one know if he's ready for 5-meo-dmt ?

I'm thinking about taking the same retreat as @Ar_Senses who posted about it recently. Only after some research I'm starting to doubt a bit. The 4 days retreat costs 500 €. It includes one kambo ceremony and one or two bufo alvarius trips. First kambo does seem quite toxic to be honest and not that beneficial. Experiences can be very different plus I mean -frog venom ! I don't exactly feel ready for 5 meo dmt either. Also it's not pure and contains another form of dmt and dr. Rettig is basically eyeballing your doze with smoke. What would be the pro's and con's ? I also seem to look at it as some sort of magic pill which will bring a lot of change and I feel I'm gonna be disapointed to be honest. I'm lost between logical arguments and my ego making excuses I'm also afraid of full blown ego death in case that would happen. In short - difficult call. Leo at some point even talked down ayahuasca because it was way more unstable than a chemical ingredient if I remember correctly.

Thanks for the info. I'm actually considering doing the retreat right now. What was your psychedelic experience before doing taking 5-meo-dmt ? It's supposed to be 4 times more powerful that aya for instance and it just sounds like some serious shit. And you seem to have handled it like a boss. The more I read your story the more impressed I am.

That's not how spiral dynamics work. In a very cliché way, blue would beat her up because she's a girl and why is she even talking while yellow would meta communicate to solve the issue. You're not rising or regressing anywhere just because you have some attitude or opinion. Spiral dynamics is amazing but it's way more complex than simple stages. It's a great tool just please be warry of becoming the boy with the hammer, which once he has a hammer in his hands only sees nails to bang

Neurotic doing Along the lines of the previous post. Would you be totaly fine if nothing ever changed ? If you never meditated ? Never did anything ? If you never ever changed who you are ! If you stayed exactly the same as you are right now. Would you be fine with that ? I'm sure as hell I would not ! And this is a deep lack of acceptance. To really change you need to accept everything fully. This is so hard because basically all of my motivation at least comes from a knee jerking reaction : I see something which makes me feel less than "capable, clever, etc." and then I invent some clever plan inspired to get better. I strive to be advanced, clever, number one, which is fully neurotic. I mean of course I get better but that doesn't solve the deeper issue. In reality you want exactly the opposite : to be fine with whatever is. To be truly fine. To truly surrender to it. To let go of the desire to change and do. I fear this is gonna take cycles : I will do a LOT exhaust myself, realize it's pointless and then come back to the same realization to fully integrate. Or maybe I had my fair share of neurotic doing and now I'm gonna be able to surrender it almost entirely. Who knows. Everytime my neurotic doing/motivation is triggered I immediately try to surrender it. To let that shit go.

@Ar_Senses Thanks it was an amazing read. I'm glad you got so much out of it. I'll definitely consider doing such a retreat in the future. Is it only happening in the summer ? Does Octav have a website or something of the sort ?

Turquoise development teacher nonsense in progress * Don't forget he is turquoise ! Also an amazing self-development teacher ! How could you ? I mean I know Leo's policy is 98% percent of the forum is garbage and you have to skim trough to find the interesting things but I was always against encouraging excess mental masturbation. Like there is a healthy limit to this, in the same way green has to be intolerant of intolerance to promote tolerance, sometimes you have to moderate certains mental masturbation and for me 9 thousand posts and 8 (EIGHT) journals is a BIT too much. I could literary write three or four Phd's with the amount of time it took him to write all of those posts. You can produce a endless amount of information that sounds good clever and like some advanced teaching but is in truth without any consistency. This is self-evident for keyborad jockeys in pickup forums for instance : there is what works and then there are all those flashy absurd theories and techniques and this or that which no one needs and no one uses and people just post to feel clever. Yeah you could ignore this issue on a personnal level you can just ignore him and do your work - but a lot of people may be easily misguided because it sounds clever or nice and that would make for a degrading community. You cannot grow as a community swimming in the waves of orange mental masturbation. Not gonna happen.

Surrender and contemplation I've been in a sort of thug of war : very often when something I do not like happens there appears some thoughts along the lines of : let's work to change this ! You should not allow this or that ! Do ! Every time I undo the undoing fantasy and surrender to the do nothing - and the feelings the doing is trying to avoid. Also of course orange conditionning kicks back in with a sort of you cannot just do nothing mentality. The desire to get better, to progress is still there. That's why I started to contemplate : why am I even doing self-development ? What do I want out of this ? Do I want to be happy ? It's quite incredible whatever neurotic doing arises to notice it. We put so so much pressure on yourselves to perform. Like if you're relaxing you always start to think well I should be doing more ! I read a thread on there on the forum about someone who was like no watching movies are all distractions ! But isn't that neurotic orange doing ? Why would you even DO anything ? Why do we feel the desire to do ? On a very deeper level I'm questionning the purpose leo talking about in his meaning video. What is even the purpose of doing ? Or of all this "planned" doing at least. You might think I'm going too far but that would be orange again. But there is a deeper motivational problem. Notice how orange motivation is all about the rewards. Stop doing stupid shit. Drop this or that. Drop your friends because who needs them you only need to achieve more ! It's just crude mindless working. Like excess orange is discarding everything not productive and it becomes unproductive because you're not driven. Achievement nor cheese doesn't satifsty you. You don't enjoy your work. You don't find it even important. You only want some rewards. If the work is worth doing it should be done for itself and not the rewards it brings. In writing there is a saying about inspiration not being reliable and chasing it with a club. What's that gonna do for you ? Nothing ! You're gonna produce garbage ! If you don't feel like producing beautiful art nor you find it beautiful then it's simply gonna be garbage. You're not feeling inspired because you feel too forced and too obliged to do something ! You have too much pressure and too many stakes and expecting too many rewards. I wished sometimes I could skip working all together and just chill under the sun. That's not gonna fly. Perspiration not inspiration, just do it, etc are simply extremely orange saying which do not help you at all. Do you struggle with procrastination ? That's simply too much orange. Did you ever notice discipline was suffering ? Like this very hardcore pressure discipline like I have to do or I shall suffer or I must do because I want those rewards ? Well it's the same. And of course I feel great resistance to discarding discipline all together because that's extreme and also extremely orange. But inspiration wins every time. It must be organic and come from inside. Healthy doing comes from inspiration and note internal struggle where you have to force yourself to do. Of course, if you're orange you're extremely afraid of surrender and letting go. Wait are you telling me to do nothing and become undisciplined ? That sounds horrendous to an orange person. How will I ever get my sport cars and hot girls then !? Well you have to let it fully go and it will come back arround full circle : if you can surrender doing fully and discilpine fully and purpose fully your organism will become so bored with distractions it will find something more worthwhile to do organically. But you gotta let the neurotic doing go. You gotta let it go.

Honestly I'm also extremely annoyed at all of this. Like the stoner bro advice "oh man you just gotta get enlightened and no more problems no reason to do anything". Only 0.00001% of people even get to enlightenement. Most of people talking about it are just mentally masturbating with conceptual notions. You don't even have to become enlightened => you're fully free to do anything, you don't even have to solve the maze, you can do whatever you want ! You can simply live a "normal" life get kids and die at 80. It's fine. Honestly this whole " discard everything" and only enlightenement is worth it ideology is extremely annoying to me. Therapy is an amazing tool which has helped me a lot. Every tool has its limitations you need to realize but that's completely fine too. In general, as a independant thinker you need to take nothing on faith (Leo talks about this a lot) and check it for yourself. Do what works for you. Consider that everyone aside from you is strictly full of shit and disagree with everything by default and then carefully consider it for yourself. That's independent thinking. Even if you know WHO you are, your body mind still "exists" and it can enjoy its life and it can just freaking go to therapy or do whatever for all I care. If there was a "me" to care lol. (I'm talking from direct experience). "You" are not even going to therapy You have like zero choice in that matter !

@Charlotte What would be "bad" about white rice ? Aside from the fact it's carbs fucking up keto diets ? Check out BLACK rice it has amazing nutritional benefits

Spiral dynamics and Green is hands down the best thing that ever happened to me. I never ever felt so good in my life. Transitioning to green aside from meditation/yoga and other spiritual practices is the most worthwhile thing I've ever done. And it's simply incredible. As I'm working up towards green I'm striving to : Learn the following qualities and skills : Openness Surrender Acceptance Tolerance Non violent communication Deeper emotionnal connection Deeper EQ Feeling feeling feeling more emotions and enjoying it Opening of the heart in relationship and everything (and boy does it feel good) letting go I'm also trying to free myself and work trough : Guilt/shame Hurt/pain Anxiety/tension Bitterness Unworthiness Anger/rage Feeling deficient/bad/not good enough lack of belonging Neurotic doing Compensating behaviours One of the best books I'm currently reading for handling all of this, on top of contemplation and SDS, is Tara's Brach Radical Acceptance. The book is amazing. The core problem with orange is that everyone to some extent feels deficient, unworthy (trance of unworthiness as Tara calls it), not good enough, fucked up, w/e, disconnected etc. Because orange cannot handle all those feelings and it tend to try to achieve to forget about the pain. Basically it's easy : Someone hurt you ? I'm gonna be more succesfull to feel better and then fuck them over ! I feel lost ? Work more. this or that or w/e hurts ? work even more ! Achieve more ! The key concept that made it click is listening to Leo : orange is just a another mind virus with secular values. Which instead of handling your feelings and going deep inside insist on you working more and more, achieving and it being exactly the only way ! To stop feeling deficient and the pain of being deficient all you have to do is achieve more ! But as Tara puts it it's only fucking up you more. You achieve and then you feel more disconnected, lost, lonely, anxious, etc. Also the idea that success doesn't make us happy finally clicked to some extent after listening to Leo's episode for the tenth time : like recognizing that success won't make us happy is a huge step forward and it's kinda a struggle because we are so programmed to feel like it is # mindvirus. There is currently a consistent tension about this in me and it will take time to process it. The core orange shenanigan is feeling very deficient and denying it and trying to achieve to get away from painful feelings. It doesn't work. On a funny note this is exactly what happened to RSD Julien : his whole scandal forced him to transit from orange to green because it fucked him over completely. And now he is teaching to some extent the whole stop being neurotic orange stuff to become green and do out of inspiration. The issue is is that if you haven't studied spiral dynamics and have no meta perspective you're not seeing how orange works and is actually a sort of mind virus and it won't really hit you, you really need to surrender to accept the limitations of orange and thrive to green. This also means accomplishement for the sake accomplishement - you need to let that shit go. It's not gonna make you happy by itself. Success does nothing for you on a emotionnal plan and as Tara puts it nicely you can have the best things in the world and you won't be able to enjoy them ! It's not happening ! It's a different dimension ! In short if you feel deficient no amout of achieveing will solve it. So I'm also trying to process feeling of hatred and pain related to being bullied, my exe's, women hurting me, etc. As Tara teaches us we can discover what our shadow issues are by asking two questions : What do I want other to see me as ? What do I not want other to see me as ? More precisely it comes down to several other questions I'm asking myself : Why do I wanna be cool ? Be seen as cool ? Feel cool ? Not being associated with uncool ? Feel like I'm in a movie ? Always putting up some sort of performance ? Why do I need to feel cool ? Why do I feel deficient when looking at cooler people ? Why am I always trying to be more clever than everyone ? Why am I always trying to get into the clever teacher position ? Why do I need to always feel superior to everyone ? More clever ? Why am I not showing how vulnerable I feel sometimes or how hurt I am or why I am trying to hide how imperfect I am ? WHy am I trying to always be the best ? To be great or to be amazing or to do better than anyone ? Why am I even trying to transcend orange ? Why do I always want to achieve and achieve even more ? In short because of feeling deficient and not wanting to feel the pain of being imperfect, deficient, and the pain related to all the other negative feelings. So trying to be cool, look cool, clever, superior, outperforming, achieving for the sake of it, competition, being better, you have to let that shit go. This goes meta because you also have to wonder why am I trying SO HARD to better myself ? Why am I doing self-actualization ? You have to go deep into the neurotic doing and understand what you're trying to avoid and let it go entirely. This means for instance not working on your life purpose if it's not aligned with your heart - for me it often writing was to write about all the pain and how everyone who hurt me was a bitch and having the whole nation read me and tell me yes your ex or this person was a bitch to you and feel nationwide pity. Fuck me I have issues. Then comes the part when I imagine people throwing flowers at me on the streets because I'm amazing. But more key questions are along the lines of : why do I wanna fuck so much girls and always wanted to fuck so much girls like a industrial grade consumption fucker ? WHy did I always want to better myself on a industrial grade level and achieve and overthrow everything and everyone and feel on the top of every pyramid imaginable with the impossible being possible and every sky having no limit. If I never went green you could have given me a life time and I would have tried to achieve infinity. So yeah those questions are very important to ponder and I'm seeing more and more of my own neurotic behaviour. Why do I wanna get accross to green is also a very good question because there is always a process of not being good enough as I am and wanting to achieve be it in the spiritual world, by meditating MORE and I see the same tendency : more questions, more meditation, more reading about spiral dynamics more eating healthy, more of this and that. This is a very well known danger. The key is to notice it and surrender which is difficult because it's met with a lot of resistance : no I don't wanna stop working ! First time RSD Julien told something along the line you have to let to shit go I was like FUCK YOU I'm gonna go on working ! Hell no I'm not stoping my rat race. And it's still a struggle that's pretty much going on. The very very desire to achieve and to DO something needs to be contemplated very deeply, whatever the doing is ! Because if it's done for the "wrong " reasons it's not worth it. And it's very hard because it fucks up everything entirely and you realize you've been doing it wrong your whole life and there is a red alert in your head about "NO don't stop achieving ! keep the rat race on ! You must go on ! Don't stop ! Never stop !" . I wanna really deeply understand what will happen if I stop. Finally a funny remark : money, status etc isn't what get girls, it plays almost no role whatsoever, it's just that orange cannot see things such as charm, radiance, humour nor emotions and doesn't appreciate them fully. There are no parameters aside from looks and money in orange thus it becomes what sets the bar while it totaly false and doesn't make a relationship. Feelings make a relationship.

I mean it's kinda absurd since you're cheating in front of her technically. I can't see how this is better. You're less manipulative I guess ? @outlandish Also it's still very manipulative to say : okay you don't wanna have sex with me, well okay I'll go sleep with someone else ? Like that's NOT gonna pressure her at all ! There are way deeper issues at play, such as a lack of attraction and a amazing amount of disrespect since the issue is not getting solved and her not caring about the relationship. I mean also the poor guy is suffering and you're telling him to try to fuck someone on the side to fix his issues ? C'mon guys.

Flash News : pick up video infields are very very often staged as they are great marketing. They hire actresses. Typical Orange : of course we're gonna make it seem like the pick up works and make it as blantant and flashy as possible so more people buy our products ! As for @Deutsche22 Consider the fact that she is most likely already cheating on you on someone she finds attractive. She will be cruel and unapologetic about it. Pray that your country laws will allow you to keep your custody on your daughter. Orange women will treat you like utter garbage if you are not attractive = this is a ticking clock : she will cheat on you at some point and/or file for divorce. Most likely she is waiting for some event to pull the plug and then will leave you. That's what orange people do : deny everything and then suddently fuck you over and disappear in the mist. Most likely ( I don't know your situation so don't assume the worst either !!) she has already decided to leave. You have two choices : Aurum high consciousness route when you work on yourself and hope it brings the spark back into the relationship and everything is solved. You could try couple counseling, etc. But there are no magic fixes for a relationship that has been degrading for 3 years. OR you deploy orange shady tactics to fuck her over before she does. Or at least prepair for court and think about some strategies you can to keep your property and to keep seeing your daughter. This is a complicated issue but try to act with integrity nonetheless. But if you see that she is completely unforgiving and doesn't give a shit about your well being feel free to do the same and try to get the most you can out of it. You can always get to green, yellow, turquoise later on it's fine to act like this at orange at least to avoid her walking all over you.

And What about white rice, brown rice and red rice or any other types of rice ?