Sri Ramana Maharshi

I haven't misundestood anything. I'm not trying to understand. Sangha are those following the noble 8 fold path to purification. Period. Attainment isn't the point, as you know, they can be symptoms that the work is happening and abiding in the present and are not the goal, of course. Accretion is what we are losing, and it is not about gaining. Don't worry, I see between your words and am the message is clear. I don't trust shit, so I'm safe there too. You are hilarious and intelligent too. What I am saying is that most here aren't willing to effort and apply discipline, even in conversation, and there are better forums. That's all. This one was disappointing. Maybe I was just in a bad mood this weekend and snapped into judgement. We'll see. Who cares. If you are having fun and getting "lighter" from being here then you will stay and that's great. Enjoy!

Weeel, if you are identifying with possessive-ness and jealousy (animal defilements) as solid and unchangable personality traits, then it is likely that you are incapable of a mature healthy relationship with anyone....monogomous or not. But I had to go through it all before I learned to quit being jealous, and it was the time between age 18-27 or so, so it's not like I was a fast learner. It's easy to look back nearly 20 years later and see it as cake. Good luck brother.

I'm in a similar boat except 6 years and about 1000 bux worth a month (naturally I mostly got top grade for free every day). We're talking 5 grams a day for 6 years straight. It didn't seem to prevent making it all the way to S.U.N. though, but now life and practice requires me to put it down for a while, perhaps forever. Or at least until the compulsion to manipulate myself to do it and overlap buzzes, etc. is broken. After 5 days of total abstinance you at the 1st 1/2 life of THC, meaning 1/2 is out of your system. 10 days later you are at 1/4 THC in the body. 15 days later 1/8th, 20 days 1/16th and so on. After that 5 days you are home free physically. If you truly a Vipassana practitioner who has broken the "solidity" of the object (Udayabaya Nyana/A&P) then you may go through a mini (or major dukkha nana or even full ReObs upon going cold turkey). This was the case here. That's good for you and there is a lot of Insight there. Trust me...or don't and find out for yourself. Opinions vary on smoking and meditation, so please remain flexible to what may be best for you and understand that you don't know and feeling guilty about what your character/body/life does could be another trap, and have nothing to do with realization. Then again, if you can't help worrying, you *will* sabotage or extend your path. Cannabis does provide lots of vibrations/sensation for investigation, but they are course, and could prevent eventual phala...but you don't know for sure. Once you have a few months away from Cannabis cold turkey, then perhaps you can find you will be able to use it in moderation and achieve kensho (especially with a 100% Sativa, as some have found). But I wouldn't rely on a drug for Kensho too much if I were you. State dependancy is the most common outcome and it ain't enlightenment, no matter what bald goatee'd fool tells you. hahaha

Actually it's a great album by the excellent 70's punk band (and collective) Crass, when all the females from the collective made an album. That album was called Penis Envy. Some great messages and lyrics there. Including a song called "smother love", which discusses issues of "open relationship" and problems with the absolute concept of Monogamy. (you might want to have a listen/read Shin).

Yeah...open relationships. My wife and I tried that way back around 1999, and at the time there was a little of community of "followers" listening to and believeing everything we said, and a little "cult" started stacking up around my rantings. Girls wanted to have sex with me to "go deeper" and half the guys did too. In the end we were too immature to handle it, only being in our 20's, etc. Little boys and girls. Lots of people got hurt and friendships ended. I didn't know I had accidentally become a cult leader, kind of like what is happening with Leo and the mindless immature dolts here. I'm still with my wife now, because she has the integrity of 1000 humans. We were true to our ideals and strong, and we got the insights, so in the end it was worth it. Guess you have to decide. Part of growing up. I still don't think anyone should live in a box, but I live in a lifestyle that has been essentially "monogamy" for the last 17 years or so. We don't enforce it, it's just what we have chosen within the non-restrictive openess of "freedom". You have to find out on your own what makes you happy, and perhaps experiment. Good luck! M

I tend to agree strongly with this. Love (as Peter Ralston mentioned in an interview) is often used in the West as an enticement to sell things, such as greeting cards. Compassion, as talked about in Buddhist or Vedanta circles can only be arrived at after grasping one's true nature, or realizing Nibbana, after which individuality is seen through as total illusion and the only aspect of Compassion and it's ultimate value could be discribed as Oneness or that we are all in this together. On that basis, aversion can't exist, and there is no reason to compete and promote the self sense at others' expense. So, I would argue that for the unrealized, Compassion can't exist at all, since it would be deluded and used in a manipulative way, always pointed outward with the intention of getting something from others or winning in some way, no?

Trump has less "consciousness" than a drop of my piss on a dry day. But I don't see any reason to lose sleep over what is.

...wow, stupidity manifested. Are you gassing Dimetrizine right now? Read the Pentagon papers. Wars and the greatest terror operations of the world (carried out by the U.S. -- such as Vietnam/Agent Orange, etc.) were theorized and executed by huge Corporate planners such as the Rand Corporation. The U.S. is not a democracy, it is a two-party corporate polyarchy and elections are commodoties, where the platforms are bought and sold and Congress is then staffed largely by CEO's such as those of IBM, etc. Choice becomes Coke or Pepsi. At least there is sorta free speech... A terror action carried out by the U.S. is called a "police action", but is actually an illegal invasion (such as every Iraq war since Bush Sr.) and a blatent violation of the Nuremburg Convention, established post WWII. Every president since at least Carter was eligiable for imprisonment for such warrior actions, yet they always get away with it, because of the assumption "We own the World!". It's called Empire. Wake the fuck up.

Yep.

Yeah, that's what keeps me on here. So much funny stuff ROFLMAO I can think of 2 guys who are actually doing the work, and one seems to be Leo, and the other is Joseph Maynor. I hope there are more. Could we perhaps start a sub-forum of people who are actually practicing every day as hard as they can, and have given up worldly life and live in some form of ascetic abidance of obsessed self-enquiry, contemplation, and meditation? I know there are a couple other forums for that, but this one could use some "juice", IMHO.

I am too. I'm harmless and it's nice to know you got me with a joke

Compassion doesn't tend to occur in the initial stages of Awakening, and most of the posts on here are from pre-awakened seekers. Period. Compassion generally opens up (along with the Hrid, or however you map it) with much time and maturity and wearing out of the same old mental programs, post experience of the Unconditioned/VOID. Still, I think MIghty Mouse is a troll anyway, so why do I give a fuck?

This post has value. Refutaion by denigration under the cowardly guise of sarcasm. Mature. I guess I got disappointed when I discovered that this forum was predominately a "sandbox for seekers" mostly going in circles and fighting. Then the stuff was so absurd when looked at, that it actually became interesting due to it's extreme absurdity.

That's right. In the poorest communities, you see the big TRUMP signs. Consent is manufactured, then purchased -- bull eaten and swallowed. You couldn't have hit the nail any harder on the head.

I thought it was funny. Strange, but certainly funny (the first time it was glanced at anyway).

I've seen a lot of dumb shit on this forum, but wow. This is even worse than the "no Fap" chicanery. Greed, Hatred, Delusion - Trump seems to hold mastery in all three. Everything that leads one being to fuck with another being derives from those.

Yep. A priori. About 80% of the folks on here seem to have the brains of a slug and are 100% unconscious.

Woo! Have to say a total sincere "Amen Leo!!!" here. The only two people I have personally seen to successfully combine Compassion and politics are Noam Chomsky and Howard Zinn, most skillfully Zinn, in both his life and its reflection in his written works. In his apparent most mature form, nearly totally self-less. Incredible. Observation correlation on zero integrity for Trump and pure survival system unconscious manifestation. Cheers! M

I'll now say publicly what I said to StephenK in message: Sorry. I'm not always the greatest communicator, as Compassion is still being awakened and is not at mastery (obviously). I suck at communication often both verbally and in written form, and harsh speech (or its impression) results. I'm here to share and learn and hopefully contribute, but not add stress. I'm getting old, and never was very skilled at forum use, hence this double post (which is supposed to be a no-no, right?). I hope any who felt stress upon reading my attempts can find a way to forgive, if not for my sake, for the sake of development. Sincerely, M

Very cool. Enjoy!!! I'm jealous as all get-out. Here where I live it's sloshy rain, 25 degrees, and a little sleet now and again.

StephenK, >Skeptics of all kinds are needed. In the lab/field, yes. >On the path of realization "Skeptical Doubt" is a defilement. A biggie. Real big one. In fact it blocks Samadhi directly and anyone who has attained even light Access Concentration knows this. That doesn't mean I win anything, I can't win. How could a fantasy of personality win anything? These are just trusims. You and I aren't the best of communicators and we both sometime (apparently, or at least in my case) forget to place Compassion first. I am catching myself in this here. Just sharing, that's all. Perhaps I was a bit harsh with the "flatlander" junk, but this is a Leo forum, and Spiritual Ego ubber alles, or something, right? Lets place fun first and realization can just continue to deepen forever organically. Good luck dhamma friend, and I will keep on eye on my imaginary dirt as I have faith that you will as well. "god bless" M

Logic is bound up in human communication. We are zero's and ones when we talk (pure logic, or in the case of some, attempts). Talking about what is outside of logic is impossible. For me included. Good luck. Masturbation? Actually releasing one's grip/grasp just at the point of climax is the point. You missed that, along with Reality. Read the Tibetan tantric texts and see that there is a pathway which requires placing the mind into full Equanimity and releasing the craving. POW!!!!! That takes bravery, and surrender, not logic. I don't want to win... therefore everything is ok friend. I enjoy discourse now and again, and really I hope I didn't upset you, for reals. Materialism is great and super useful (in the lab, and on the chalkboard/Hawking et al.). You can figure out lots of correlations about relative things and stuff, and it's useful. Any Quantum Cosmologist worth their salt knows that Positivism means that the only thing "Science" has to touch Reality with is a theory (no substrate below that for science -- oops, snap). The game is propping up or tearing down theories. Observation is subservient to this. We both know this, Hawking knows this, Sagan knew it, and was a rich Mystic (look at the last chapter of the book Contact -- not the simplistic movie attempt/fail). When you have experienced Kensho 100's of times since you were 4, you don't have to talk out your ass, your mouth does just fine. Until then, I welcome your wonderful perspective and angry sense of intellectual entitlement along with the way I sound right now, lowering myself to this discourse to try and give an oracle to a someone still rooted in a personal matrix. Peace.

No fap is the most retarded thing I've ever heard of. Maybe being married happily for 20 years and making major progress out of personal mental programs (Realization) helps ease the tension of bullshit. My bull. Oh well...enjoy! Try reading some Anais Nin or Henry Miller, or just fap off and Cease. Some people have gone all the way to Enlightenment in one Fap, so watch it!!! Cheers! PS: If one can't have a sexual orgasm without porn, you are pretty lost already, fapping is the least of your worries. Jeez.

Uh, meet the flatlander. Hi flatlander. You are correct that no one should take someone's anecdotal account of extinction as Truth and then stop there. Do the work yourself, then run your mouth - hence: Consider that the scope and framework of reality is created by and totally subservient to what is manifesting as life itself, and not the other way around. Your mind even in your little "skeptical" attempt is forgetting this and acting as authority again to whoever told you there was an amygdala. In this capacity, as Mystics, the only real skepticism that is of value is that which is 100% self-directed. Otherwise, you are a seeker and have not yet found your vehicle, so why not be studying and practicing and not talking. Your ignorance preceeds your unskillful arrogance. I don't even know there is a body, or an "organism"...whatever there is that is life and universe, was totally made up by "me", and keeps doing it every tick. Kensho reveals all your knowledge to be anecdotal, and reality to be open ended to the point of infinity -- simultaneously. Feel free to maintain a staunch closed position and never know anything about reality ever. Nobody gives a damn. Of course you can't learn anything from his glimpse, or my direct consciousness. Only yours. And you don't seem to want to know. That's fine too, and a valid choice. The Buddha didn't claim any personal authority here, he simply said to try the practice and see, if you are curious. If you do, and do it right, you will see. When fear "runs amok" as you say, without an object...this can be due to the fact that the sense of "mind" has stumbled on the inimitable fact that there is no sensory activity and separate sentience witnessing...but rather just sensory activity. Next the thing starts to segfault and freak out wanting the comfort of separation and dualism and familiar good old burn of suffering again. Once it comes back, along with the bull sense of deceptive security, then the person recovers back to the "bondage" of the previous abidance. Damn, most of the people on here are really really talking out their ass. Why such scientifically and mystically ignorant folks would be attracted to a forum like this is beyond me, but this is pretty disappointing. The only valid source for your Insight is what has been won on the zafu and agreed upon by your learned realized teacher(s). Direct Consciousness #1 source here. This isn't the laboratory and you aren't a dead corpus of data.........or are you? M

It could be debated (and already has been by some) that deep sleep is "nothingness", but states have touched this body that are deeper. 1.) Jhana in full Commentarial Absorbtion. Source: Hard Jhana/full relative time stop/direct consciousness in personal practice. Secondary source: Visuddhimagga/Vimuttimagga, and other individuals alive now (anecdotal) such as Ajahn Brahm for example. This is deeper than "deep sleep" delta waves, since in deep sleep one's body can have contact at the ear sense door, and awaken from slumber. In Absorption one is fully disconnected from "mind" and the 5 sense doors, including hearing. Most markedly, from the standpoint of an outside observer, the body barely takes in breath and is basically comatose. Otherwise it doesn't qualify for commentarial Jhana. This isn't even to mention Nirodha Samapatti, which I won't even unpack here. 2.) Nibbana, defined this time as the cessation of all formations (not just mental, but those found at Contact with the 5 bodily Aggrigates). Personal practice source: Annica 3 doors experience, body skips like a flat rock against VOID. Things really are quite simple, but if we try and simplify them too much in concept, it's just gibberish and folks get confused and waste time in fear and traps, or more tragic forms of ridiculous do-er-ship. Ramana mentioned in his collected works that deep sleep was a time when the world was gone, but he *may* not have realized that the substrate "I-I" was an impermanence wave that comes and goes. In any case, the Buddha gave a much more exhaustive and useful treatment of these issues with his elucidation of the 4 noble truths and particularly the 3 Lakhanas of conditioned existence. I don't mention these states and terms in order to be literal or fundamentalist, but if we do practice/yoga, self-inq. whatever, then we have to come up with a consistant language in which to communicate our efforts. Without that, it's a bunch of idiots pasting ridiculous pictures at each other and spinning in content. Uh oh! Snap.