The White Belt

@Leo Gura I don't believe it, but we have to do better than 'we aren't the brain because we can't experience it. I can't experience my cheekbone either but that doesn't mean the cheek bone isn't there..!

But what if we can't perceive our brains in our direct experience because it is CREATING our direct experience? We can't see our eyes either.

Enlightenment is an accident. Practices make you more accident prone ;-)

@Nahm

When you are asleep, what happens to the body? Actually, forget the body for a moment.. What happens to the lamp? The bed? The floor? The window? The wall? You can answer the body question by answering any of the others. They disappear don't they? All together they cease to exist. If you think you're the body you may as well think you're the wall. Both are only form. infact the wall was probably here before you were 'born' and probably will be after you 'die'

@Nahm I see.. But I won't understand what you meaning when you say it isn't there already, until I have the insight for myself ;-)

@Dodo Yeah, I agree. The more I get sucked into presence, the more likely it seems I am not the body, over just intellectual belief alone. We can believe ANYTHING intellectually if we really want to. Makes no difference to anything at all. That's why we're (and why Buddha was) so concerned with direct experience.

I've noticed seekers and even mystics keeping photos of their teachers around. Is their any point to doing this? Keeping images of ones dearest teachers around the house. The obvious trap being falling into worship. The benefit being, reminding one to abide in presence, and reminding one of what they aspire to. Thoughts?

I often wonder if you're drunk when you're posting on here...

@sgn Hahahaha!!

Awesome guys. I don't see it as a bad thing at all. Better than having pictures of naked ladies, cut out from magazines, on your bedroom wall... Right ;-)?!

@Spiral I just mean the subtler the mind the less of it. Somebody who has totally crossed the bridge into subtle mind wouldn't bother at all.

Hey everyone! I was going to ask what the differences are, and examples of the Gross and Subtle minds, but I thought it would be better to give examples of what I think the differences are, and perhaps you guys can tell me if i'm wrong, or add to it if I'm right. Gross mind Constantly chases cheap, novel experiences and always needs stimulation E.G: Always needs stimulating via technology (Television, internet, etc.) Works too much Parties too much Drinks too much Involves in gossip a lot Feeds of drama Isn't very present Eats unhealthy foods Chooses instagram posts over first-hand experience of beautiful moment Needs to listen to music always over hearing the natural sounds coming in Needs constant sexual stimulation (Strip clubs, porn, chasing girls in nightclubs etc.) Blocks emotions (totally out of touch with them) A lot more monkey chatter Subtle mind Can appreciate and soak in deeper beauty, sensitive to all going in Needs little or nothing to enjoy this moment Sees the beauty in a lot small things Don't want to get to 'there' from here as much Chooses reading over youtube, and general internet time-wasting Likes to walk in nature Doesn't gossip so much and avoids drama where possible Eats healthy foods mindfully Need for relationships isn't so strong Fully feels and is attuned to own emotions Wants to experience things fully for themselves without needing to show people on Instagram A lot less monkey chatter Are these valid examples? Would you like to add any big ones?

You're only going off the look of the form. Before Eckhart Tolle was famous you could he been sat next to him on a bus, in his shirt and blazer, and have been thinking 'ugh look at this unconscious, corporate drone'. The beauty of it is, is that anybody could be doing vigorous consciousness work. On the way back from meditating in an isolation tank tonight I stopped to buy a packet of Oreos and was munching on them in the line at the bus stop. The thought popped up that yeah, I think I'm special because I'm into self-actualization, but I'm not, and nobody gives a damn

Is this normal? See, I don't know if this is my mind trying to distract my from my presence in meditation, or if this is a good thing, because it does feel nice in a way.

@Dodo where do you live? London is 1.5hr away from me!

I've been meditating for 2 years. The first year was on and off but currently I am on an 8 month daily streak. I was previously doing a good amount of time and daily self-inquiry but I reeled it in a little to focus on life purpose. Now I am doing 30 mins a day, but I contemplate for most of the day compulsively, as I go about my day. For the past month I've had this momentary moments when my entire body goes a little tense, lasting about 2-3 seconds, but this past week it's been happening a lot. Like the whole body goes so tense, it's like some energy wants to completely rip out of me but it can't. Also i've upped my presence/mindfulness a lot. I'm mindful for most of the day, especially the last two days, as i've revisited 'The Power of Now' and i've been laughing in hysterics and then getting a little teary very often. Just pure all out belly laughter. My meditations have been emotional, and i've just meditated and I let out a massive scream half way through, and opened my eyes, heavy breathing. Like, nothing scary happens, but my body went crazy and reacted like a train was about to hit me. This stuff doesn't happen when i'm talking to people. I feel like these are signs of a first awakening? Are they? How can I submit to it? What's going on?

Thanks Err'body!

@Anna1 Thanks. Don't be sorry. Somehow I don't even mind.

@Anna1 this is mostly happening when I'm not formally meditating. Wouldn't say I'm trying to 'get somewhere' per se.. Only to my natural state.

Who will drop the egoic desire to win the debate first? I don't even know what you guys are arguing about...

Then why is it, that we feel out of sorts when we are sad, negative, angry, disappointed? Why do we pull ourselves back to happiness? Even unconscious people know it's not right when they are stressed, anxious, unhappy etc. This is the entire point of life, to be happy, why do we have this bias between equanimity, happiness, calm, peace etc? Why are enlightened people so happy, so calm, so soothing, funny, all of these traits we know are good, if reality is nothingness?

After much time and effort spent raising your consciousness, looking back, is there anything you have researched, read, or any facet of self-actualization that you think is an utter waste of time, that you wouldn't really recommend to anybody?