Frogfucius

@Bebop There's no sugar coating it, my friend. You can fool yourself, but you can't fool me. The ethereal mystique of a sage/guru is sexy as fuck. It's not hard to get hooked on that swagger. Like I said, I understand he's in the business. That's well understood. Doesn't mean I can't calls it as I sees it. Don't agree? Oh well, I'm entertained.

Desire is not the way you function in this world. When you cling to desire, that's how you suffer. The way you function is by eating, drinking water, excreting, sleeping, and then eventually dying. All natural inputs that have no effect by desire. A plant, a cat, a bacterium... They don't cling to desires. They intake their energy and nutrients, until they can no longer renew their bodies, and die. Labeling "quality of life" is more bs beliefs. There are primitive tribes out there that enjoy their extremely simplistic way of life, and refuse to integrate into our modern world. Check out the tribes in the Amazon - they're aware of the modern world, but they don't see the need to change. Their "quality of life", which is a term coined by egotistical societies, may not be high in regard to how our society measures it, but look at how much mental suffering goes on in so-called highly developed countries. Mental illness is rampant, even with our comfortable lives. How we live isn't the problem, it's our beliefs. Want to know how dangerous beliefs in ideologies can be? Just check out racism, sexism, or any kind of religious/political war. If the 7/11 man is fed, has his bodily health, and doesn't cling to desire or beliefs...then what's the issue, again? At least he's not preaching some holier than thou stance and pretending he's making the world a better place, all in the name to serve his ego. The man who does that may not think he's serving his ego, but that's exactly what he's doing. He's fooling himself. My bad little homey, didn't mean to derail your joke topic. Just wanted a place to retort to Leo, and didn't want to create my own topic, so I saw this joke topic and thought "Why not?" Yeah, go ahead and close it. There's nothing really to discuss here. If you think I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Oh well.

You still believe in "quality of life" and "contributing to humanity" and "self-imposed poverty", as if those have any merit in how one should live their lives. In one of the most extreme examples, Eckhart Tolle lived as a bum for years after his "awakening". It wasn't until later in his life that he translate his experiences into some kind of guidance for people who are clueless. Yes, comforts are nice to have, and desires are fine. But when you attach labels and meanings to any kind of desire or action, that's when the problem of ego arises. And with this, there's no more to discuss with you. As long as you're grasping at concepts and illusions, you're not living in reality, but a limited projection of the world around you. So be it. I never claimed I didn't have desires. Again, desires alone are fine. But when you attach labels to things and start categorizing things in some kind of hierarchy, that's when the problem of ego arises. Like thinking someone is inferior than you because they're not a sage (and let's face it, looking down on the 7/11 guy and saying he doesn't live a comfortable life is doing just that), or thinking that some mystic is living a grander life than the rest of humanity. More projections, more thoughts, no reality. If you want to feed the hungry, then feed the hungry. There needs to be nothing more said about it.

@Epiphany_Inspired I was actually going to make that post, regardless if he called me out or not. But since he did, all I did was add an extra paragraph to the post. Here's the thing: You're already there. You want to become a sage? For what purpose? Because it's cool, maybe some money involved, you think you're some zenned out mother fucker. It's all egoic purposes, even if love and compassion are involved. I'm not condemning it, sages are pretty cool. But let's not put their asses on a pedestal and think that way of life is inherently more fulfilling than, say, the enlightened guy working at 7/11. Life is life - why put layers of concepts and bullshit and think it's the best way to live? If that 7/11 worker is happy, why bother thinking he'd be better off as a sage? Nothing against Leo. The dude knows his shit. But I realize this is a business, he's trying to make money, so preaching "That's it! You're done! Things can't get better from here!" aren't in his cards. He'll continue to move the goalposts backwards. More meditation! More contemplation! More reading theories and cramming shit in your limited brain! Yeah, those things can be helpful to calm your mind down, but there's no endzone here. No touchdown to be made to win the game. Pretending there's some "Truth" here to find, and that you can somehow find this "Truth" by sitting still for several hours and staring at a wall, is purely mental masturbation. Let me know when you find this truth - I'd love to see it.

@General 2 So it's societal pressure, then. Your thoughts hampering you about "Why are you alone?" are just thoughts. Divorce yourself from them. Let them happen, but don't make a judgment either way. Eventually they'll lose their grip over your emotions. You're letting other people control your emotions. Why? Why give a fuck if you're single? People make fun of you for it? You work with a bunch of fucking idiots, brainwashed by their culture. Want to get people to leave you alone? Be unapologetic about everything. And remember, the kid asking you if you're single isn't at fault. He's a product of the culture he grew up in, where the fantasy land of getting a partner and it being some be-all-end-all still has a grip. Of course the kid is going to question when he meets someone that doesn't fall within the worldview he grew up in. Kids do it all of the time. They question people and situations that don't fit the mold of the culture's "norm". It's really the beginning of a child beginning to question the world and society. We always tell children to hush up when they question the norm, but that's really too bad. They're taught at a young age to just accept their limited worldview. Anyways, life really isn't that complicated. You eat, you sleep, you shit, have some sex here and there, and you die. Any other labels you slap on it are just going to bring you down.

@General 2 No, it doesn't have to be laborious. Wanna get married? Well that was simple! I would say your problem is, and I'm guilty of this too, is lack of true motivation. You assign a negative meaning to the whole dating scene (laborious, stiff, awkward, etc.) when it's really nothing more than basic human interaction. If you want anything in life - a good education, a good job, a good partner - you're gonna have to put in some bit of effort. These are some basic wants, and it's okay to want them, but just leave them as simple desires and nothing more. They can't fulfill you when you assign silly stories and meaning to them. If you're truly committed, then take away any kind of labels you associate with it, because labels will only hold you back. Nothing is stiff and mechanical, unless you think it's stiff and mechanical. Figure out why you even want a partner. Societal pressure? You feel like you have to? Someone to fulfill you? Realize that just because people are in a relationship, it doesn't make them happy people, no matter how "effortless" they may have met their partner. Human relationships and personalities are far too complicated to think it's always a peaceful, blissful experience. As U.G. Krishnamurti once said, eating chocolate releases the same chemicals in the brain as falling in love. Better to eat a piece of chocolate and be done with it, than suffer years of misery.

@Soulbass Are you Leo? Then no, you probably didn't. I mean, yes, even though we're all the totality of the universe / reality experiencing itself, we still have temporary physical limitations and experiences. I wouldn't go around claiming I started the holocaust, and I was also the first to walk on the moon.

And? At what point are thoughts not a projection? What does it really matter? He called me out and called me a newb, I kindly question his stance in retort. What else am I supposed to do? Not say anything? What fun is that?

@Egoisego I don't know about all that, but the brain is nothing more than an instrument used to help us survive in this world, and it allows us to perceive physical sensations in order to function. I think "purity" is, again, a construct of the mind. And just because everything is physical, doesn't mean we can't enjoy it, or shouldn't get caught up in it. Anyways, your English is fine. No worries.

Of course. Everything is physical. Does that mean someplace, somewhere, I'm a t-rex? No! These images are just a result of physical reactions in the brain. Physical reactions given to me by the world around me, by the universe, by prior experiences and knowledge. You fail to see the ramifications of abstract thought. Hallucinations are NOT real, no matter how much you believe in them!

No. Imagining I'm a millionaire doesn't make me a millionaire. Imagining I'm a T-Rex having sex with a unicorn, doesn't mean I'm a t-rex having sex with a unicorn. You see the potential destructive power of believing in thoughts? It's the reason man has "fallen", separates himself from nature, and tries to conquer it.

This is very cult-like of Leo. There he is ranting against cults and ideals, and yet… Here he is, trying to cultivate a certain type of ideology? Now granted, I know like all self-help or self-actualizing leaders, he’s in the in the business of herding people towards a specific point; the idea that you’re already there isn’t in the cards for this type of business. But he’s idealizing the so-called “sage” and putting their asses on a pedestal. They’re still human – they still eat, shit, and die like the rest of us. Just because they’re charismatic, have built their mental fortitude/stoicism up, and are maybe a little radical, doesn’t make them the perfect person. He tried to call me out in the video, too. I already said not to take what I said on this forum seriously, because there’s nothing serious about it. I’m a “newbie”? A newbie to what, exactly? I’m not practicing to become other than what I already am. I’m not auditioning to be a “sage”. As the old Zen saying goes: "Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." If you want to become a fucking Buddha, then go for it, man! If you want to develop some kind of compassion for people, then props to you! But I don’t think you really know why you want to do this shit, other than it’s something to do, and it’s kind of cool. It’s no more noble than just being the enlightened guy working at 7/11. Now Leo, before you get mad at me, I do appreciate the work you have done. You're a really wise guy, and have helped me tremendously. But I think I have the right to respond and calls it as I sees it, no?

Of course the ego isn't real. Can you show me an ego? Where, exactly, is the ego? "But Frog, it's an idea! Ideas can have some merit, right?" An idea is a thought. Thoughts happen and can be formulated, but they don't actually exist as part of reality. Mickey Mouse was just someone's thought. We don't really believe that Mickey Mouse the character exists, do we? We humans so easily believe in our thoughts and ideas. We attach labels and meanings to everything. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's how we function in this world. But there's a reason you're told to shed all beliefs. It grounds you into reality much more than you've ever been before. But, again, this is more thoughts and beliefs, so you have to figure out for yourself what's real.

Realizing life is a game/not serious has given me the attitude of "Let the world burn". I don't care about anything anymore really. My family thinks I'm obnoxious now, because I shit talk everything - myself, them, situations. I no longer take anything seriously, but they still do. I no longer am wearing a mask, believing I have to behave or act in a certain way. The role the world built for me is now nonexistent. ...and I enjoy it. I laugh at myself. I laugh at other people. I laugh at establishments. I don't give a fuck, and at this present moment, it gives me a feeling of fear. But even that feeling is bullshit.

Nothing good or bad with sex. Nothing good or bad with celibacy. How you interpret it doesn't matter.

Haha, we'll see. Okay, I'm on an ego trip. What does that even mean? What's an ego trip? What value does it have? Can you show me an ego?

Nah man, I'm done with regrets or looking back. Here, I'll save the trouble: I'm a jackass. I'm being an idiot, I'm hateful and egotistical. There, is that better? Those words don't mean shit to me, homey. They have zero meaning in reality. I do love the game, more than ever. I don't resist it. The game is all their is: why not appreciate it?

Thanks for the input. But I got love and compassion, man. I'm not cocky. I enjoy people and peace more than hatred and condemnation. But I see through labels, and taking them and actions seriously. I'm not going to look back and think I'm a jackass, because those are just thoughts, and they're just more bullshit.

Guys, you're taking this shit way too fucking seriously. Attachment spectrum? Spiritual ego? What is all of this? There's nothing to conceptualize here. I'm not angry, I don't literally mean let the world burn. It's more of a position of acceptance on humanity's fate. Let humans destroy the forests, sap all the resources, and soar to populations of 20 billion+ until it all collapses on itself. Let misery run amok, and put our stinky little opinions on everything. There's nothing wrong with this, and it's perfectly okay. Why do I feel this way? Not because I hate people or the world, but because it's part of reality. Everything we're doing is all part of the so-called "game". Very true indeed. I'm not deceived by "my" thoughts or "my" beliefs. These conceptions I have wrote are mental gymnastics purely, but there is no way I can convey anything to anyone without some sort of language or metaphors. And when I say I "shit talk" people, I don't mean I'm an asshole in their face. I just laugh at their identities they created for themselves (and even my own), but they think I'm being silly when I say whatever pops out of my mind, or call myself nasty things to prove I really don't care about what words are said about me. You think I'm an idiot? So I'm an idiot. Why would I care? I'm noticing a more energetic flow between myself and people in general. I'm not lost in my head anymore. I love to interact with people for the first time ever, free from shackles of "what does this person think of me" like I used to have.

I’m pretty sure that expression means that those who are dogmatic in their “enlightenment practices”, and those who glorify what enlightenment is and continue to conceptualize it, don’t actually get enlightened. Someone who is quote unquote "enlightened" knows that enlightenment actually isn’t a thing. That there is no practice to be done, that you’re chasing some concept that doesn’t exist in reality. Someone who clings to ideals or practices will never understand it.

Hi! Great question. One I actually struggled with for a while, actually. I wanted to move far away, be secluded from everyone in some forest for the rest of my days. My family just wouldn’t understand me, they just don’t understand! They’re just low conscious fools, too blind to see the light! But then… I realized that’s bullshit ego talk. The more you come into understanding, the more your wildest reactionary thoughts will dissipate. Your family is fine. Your relationships are fine. How they live their lives and interact with the world is fine. They don’t need to know your mental state. If you feel they are suffering, there’s nothing you can do to help them. Nothing needs to be changed.

@Wendelin I see what you mean. Stray thoughts do happen and are uncontrollable. "Enlightenment" as the term we use is to disassociate meaning from them, completely detach yourself from thought. Maybe they'll crop up less over time, but will still be there but given no mind. Just like emotions. You can feel them, but without giving them meaning, there's nothing really there to attach yourself to. There's nothing wrong with mind chatter. It's completely normal. Just don't listen to it.

@Wendelin You wouldn't be a human being if you didn't think. Our survival depends on our ability to think. An altered state of consciousness is not permanent. Enlightened people "not thinking" is just a story told to glorify it somehow. Being aware of a thought, or aware of a sensation is still a thought. We don't even really know what a thought is. This is only mental gymnastics. Why is so-called "no thought" a good thing? Why do people want to "not think"? Why does it matter if your mind is still or not?

Less theorizing, kid! More snapchatting yourself with silly dog ears and watching funny cat videos!