UnbornTao

Gonna play Rayman on an emulator. Enjoying it thus far.

Trick question Do you want me to say there are so that you turn it into something relative? Deeply enlightened individuals may be able to see through the distinction of "other" as illusory and constructed, hence not real. This is key. In your experience, you haven't experienced things like brain, atom, nerve, God, except by hearsay and concept. Point is, who cares? You yourself must get it. There's no avoiding that. Experientially speaking, others seem to exist. It's also true that what others are is an unknown to me at this point. I assume there are enlightened humans, and it appears as if we are existentially separate entities. But I don't know.

What's absolutely true. What's real. What is. What is the case, has always been and will always be.

Becoming directly conscious of the Truth.

And I said "independent". You may be conceiving of enlightenment as something limited that happens within perceptive experience by holding those presumptions. Enlightenment isn't a perception. I'm sure it can be fascinating and worthwhile to scientifically study what happens to the brain when such and such phenomenon occurs. But enlightenment is neither a phenomenon nor relative. It's off the charts, so to speak. Something else is being measured in those studies. Consider the following analogy: waking up from a dream has nothing to do with what happens within the dream. It occurs as the act of awakening itself. That's what is meant by "direct".

I do. Two expressos a day. Try L-Theanine, or quit if that's what you want. I've found that intense daily aerobic exercise radically reduces the anxiety I can get from drinking coffee. That's what I did 4 years ago or so. Now, with a sedentary lifestyle, the anxiety is more obvious. Be physically active!

You are still holding it as something that is conceivable. It is independent from the brain. Whatever happens in your experience is irrespective of the absolute. That's not the tree to be barking. Sounds like you think the brain comes first, that it is needed for enlightenment, and that awakening relies on a certain neurological configuration in order to occur. I'm saying: these are different matters. In any case, the absolute can't be thought and by nature is confusing and paradoxical to the mind. If it makes sense, we are by necessity mistaken, as we likely reduced it to an idea. It's easy to make up fantasies about this topic. Enlightenment doesn't change anything, the only thing it gets you is the truth. Again, it's true now. Either way, all this BS gets in the way. Let's remain open: What are you? Who are you? Contemplate.

Unless you wanna learn math.

Contemplation creates openness, the space to wonder and to question.

Drop everything you have about enlightenment as it is utterly useless crap. It has to be. Seriously. Consider the implications that it is not relative. That may create an opening in order for you not to confuse it with relative stuff like perception, changes in states and ideas. It's what you are now. It's what's absolutely true. Period. You see? It's always been true -- even before you had a brain. Discard this BS too. Go become enlightened yourself. Btw, the terms awakening/enlightenment are being used interchangeably here. @Carl-Richard Smart but mistaken explanation -- every explanation is here. It somehow presupposes that the matter can be thought out and mapped. You're referring to phenomenon the brain or perhaps the mind. Consciousness transcends mind and perception. This matter is not conceivable. Only direct consciousness will do the trick.

Enlightenment is independent of brain and perception.

OK

Boredom is an emotion. Two insightful definitions: Hostility without enthusiasm Arrogance! Holding your worldview as real and representative of the way the world is, confusing one for the other. You guys should soberly consider that enlightenment isn't an ideal. There's more work to be done, it's just the beginning. Unless it's a powerful one like that of Ramana, things like emotions, the body, skill, relationships, etc, are to be investigated. Now as a spiritual practice, go get bored for a couple of three days. I should be charging you guys for this advice.

Either one is absolutely conscious now or not. It'd be useful to make a distinction between absolute consciousness, and the way life is lived. The latter is relative while the former is not. In other words, emotions are another matter than the absolute. In the same way that you know you exist, you're conscious of that all the time. Can't forget it, not about memory. You're conscious. It's not a state, nor an activation, nor an energy opening.

Not at all. It's becoming conscious of what's already true, not about meaning and survival. It's about consciousness. It doesn't change anything, and it does change your relationship to everything. After it, the difference is that you're absolutely conscious of who and what you are --your nature. Our job is to get what that is, and then see for ourselves how the way we relate to everything gets changed - or not. "What's the point if I can't get anything out of it?" There's no point in it except knowing the truth, which itself is prior to meaning. That's why most people don't care about pursuing it.

Observe the tendency to remain closed-minded, stuck within one's knowledge, preferring comfortable ignorance as opposed to questioning. You try to quickly fill the space that arises when questioning some matter. Retreating to the safety of the "known" in order to feel safe is the preferred strategy, albeit a superficial and temporary one. You want to protect your conceptual world -- your worldview --, which is make-believe. Your deeply-held beliefs are unconsciously cherished and very personal to you. Why is that? What if your convictions on the world are perspectival, believed, and conceptually-constructed rather than the thing itself? Thoughts themselves are not what they're pointing at. They can never be true. In my view, this subtle and significant point is easily missed by many. What if all of your knowledge is actually ignorance that is disguised and covered by an amalgamation of assumptions, in an attempt to better handle survival? Openness can be threatening to self and worldview. It unveils one's core ignorance. At the very core of your experience, you can see that you don't know the fundamental aspects of existence, self and life. Being open in your investigations is a requisite for discovery and learning. The deeper the openness you are able to embody, the more powerful learning gets.

No. Enlightenment doesn't change anything. It reveals what already is the case. It's not an attainment. And it certainly won't transform you -- this is a separate matter, which btw is aided by awakening but is a fundamentally different pursuit. Whatever change can occur in the brain after awakening will always be a side effect and relative, and ultimately is not important. Realizing the absolute is. Similar to waking up in a dream, that doesn't improve the character in the dream. Or some such.

I'm grateful for this space. But it's an only forum with diverse individuals. Everyone has their own particular challenges in life. There might be a few "hardcore" members that provide a lot of value, however, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Most of us here are rather common folks. Proud is a good thing but we're not particularly special, nobody is. Our shared obsession in self-growth and awareness work may be a bit rare, and that's it.

God. Don't know.

Emotions are relative. What can be done prior to absolute consciousness can be done after it. "Humans" still operate as such. Ramana curious about how the world was being governed.

- Bankei.

You're conflating consciousness with the way you live and with emotions, which are relative. Enlightenment doesn't change anything. Examples of awakened individuals doing silly (and human) things abound. Because they still have to act like a person. Nissargadatta smoked, zen warriors killed people, etc. You could be enlightened and stream games. And certainly get bored, angry, jealous, etc.

Detroit: Become Human. Deals with AI, the near future, moral quandaries, etc.

Is this thread getting somewhere?