UnbornTao

The dream of being someone who doesn't care about consciousness may turn out to be made of consciousness! By the way, which thread do you mean? Hey, being busy isn't the same as ignoring. You just wanted an instant answer.

😂 Tiny emoticon.

I see, taking preemptive action to shield yourself from disappointment.

It depends on the distinction you draw with that term. But it's better to ask what it actually is. You are conscious - and aware, perceiving, cognizant, attentive - not necessarily in that order. Try to sort out those distinctions or directly ask yourself: Who's being conscious? Who is this one? After that, you can ask what that is made of. Those are some of the instructions we hear.

State is not the same as consciousness!

Oh no, no such thing. It's about the potential to refine our listening abilities. There, that sounds more elegant.

I'm sorry you think that. Nice twist to the name

Becoming directly conscious of your nature or the absolute nature of existence. I'd avoid trying to sort this out into a playbook or anything like that. Whatever's ultimately true is the goal with that. @Sugarcoat @PurpleTree you guys have no patience

I see, thanks for that.

Enlightenment is always a sudden increase in consciousness. It is not a process, even though what precedes it may contribute in some ways - such as by being open and wanting to know. That's the "direct" aspect. Everything you think about in relation to this matter will involve some kind of process, which is fine. Again, that is largely irrelevant to enlightenment itself. It may affect the body-mind, and these are side effect that come after the fact. Sure, the physical world we share works a certain way, as does your body. They aren't random occurrences. This belongs to the relative domain. You can't work your way around gravity, for example. One should actually set aside everything they think they know about awakening and confront their experience as it is - contemplating, usually, the very one they are (or take themselves to be).

@Razard86 How are you holding state? When one's human self dies, what state will he or she be in? See, could you be sleepy and enlightened? The question would be irrelevant in the first place. The notion of "state" doesn't really directly apply to consciousness, as the latter precedes the former. Would you be less (or more) awakened if you got drunk, or if you hit your head on the bathroom counter - or fell in love? There might be degrees of awakening, but those seem more related to the depth of a person's consciousness than to the truth itself. We're most likely already assuming ourselves to be "persons," too, to whatever degree. State itself is relative. I think you might be referring to (altered) mind states, which are invariably a function of biology - unless you're holding state differently - but how could they be absolute? State involves process and can (and does) change, because it's about perceptive-experience. For example, Sugarcoat brought up the brain. I propose that there's no such thing as "state" without a brain. But again, maybe we're using these terms differently. It's like the hardware and software of a computer, while consciousness is the electricity - so to speak.

No. And I do. The brain is part of the body. Beyond speculating, notice that no ending of activity needs to take place, nor is it necessary to engage in yet another process. It's simply recognizing what's already the case. You may think of yourself as needing to be 'fixed' first before being "worthy" of such a "grandiose" event, but that's not necessary. It's what you are now. You’re making up a requirement in your mind, whereas "getting it" is the only indispensable one. And if you're Leo, you're shit out of luck getting a new haircut.

Why would rewiring the body be necessary for enlightenment? In my view, it'd be like asking for a new haircut before waking up from a dream.

I'm not familiar with his work but I've heard of him and read some of his poems. Interesting person. Why do you ask?

@Sugarcoat Definitely, I recommend checking out his poetry: Haha.

Just that it might be communicating something deeper, different from what we think. It's poetry, after all. We're supposed to be a bit perplexed by it, and hopefully experience something new.

Ask Kabir. Yes, it sounds like that's what he's referring to. But where's your sense of the mysterious?