UnbornTao

But in the Dazumbé tribe (in northern Congo), that gesture is an affectionate one, meaning "I love you." So... Btw, I had GPT make up that tribe.

Thanks for the input. In relation to the following picture, see if you can recognize, or pull apart, the component of meaning - as it occurs in your experience: What does the gesture mean? What's your reaction upon seeing it? Is it offensive? How so? Can you perceive it before, or without, interpreting it?

@Breakingthewall You love to talk.

You guys want to keep the consideration abstract and overly intellectual. But what is meaning, really? What shows up as constituting meaning in your own experience?

Sounds good, thanks. It was more of a rhetorical question meant to invite personal contemplation. Another exercise: pick a small, simple object and perceive it prior to the addition of meaning.

Could be, I'm not sure. Then again, we'd need to grasp what the mind is. Definitely.

A charged interpretation that's generated by you and applied onto - or coming after - bare perception. Or, forget about answers and take a look. What makes something meaningful? What does it mean for something to have meaning?

If you find that you can't (or rather, won't) stop doing your mental-emotional suffering, particularly minor forms such as annoyance, frustration, or jealousy, go ahead and enjoy it. Join the experience instead of resisting it. Let it be exactly as it is. Want it. Do not act it out nor suppress it. Try it out. Doing this experientially changes your relationship to that particular experience - potentially reducing the suffering, or even dissolving it altogether.

@Carl-Richard Health - wholeness! Definitely.

@Someone here My point above is that you don't need to know what's ultimately true to be effective. You already do not know, and yet you act in spite of that. An amoeba also acts. The main purpose is survival, which is a different pursuit from the truth. You want the truth to be useful (or to be the same as what's useful), but it isn't. It seems you're hiding behind this condition of fundamental ignorance to undermine or avoid taking action. Also, you're being overly intellectual. I could recommend being more grounded; focus on your breath and body, and observe your experience. This should help.

@Someone here You are writing here, yet at the same time you aren't conscious of the nature of language. How come? You don't need to know what an object is or how it works internally to use it. You likely drive a car or use a smartphone without the slightest idea of their inner workings. Regarding your video game analogy: testing and exploring is precisely the point - you learn to play as you go, and you don't need to take a course on 'video game development' to figure out how to play. Again, you're conflating use or effectiveness with 'truth'. Does it get the job done? Then that's what matters in that domain.

We got WWIII before GTA VI.

@Carl-Richard It's true "If it's healthy, then in some way it must make you horny."

GPT: Being alive is an aphrodisiac.

Heil your friend.

@Sugarcoat Yes, we could also say that the mind is the "place" where concept - which includes self-image, worldview, and maybe anything else that is non-objective (excluding awareness) - occurs. Perhaps we create reality through our thinking. Anyway, paying attention to this dynamic as it occurs in one's experience is powerful and real. Here's a week-long exercise for anyone that wants to do it:

One possibility - maybe not entirely relevant to your point - is that they simply take action, consistently. They focus on action rather than the plethora of activities that don't contribute much - and that may even displace action. We usually think that mental activities such as worrying, planning, thinking about doing something, desiring, complaining, resisting, procrastinating, justifying, judging - all that - are actually accomplishing something useful, or are the same as simply doing what needs to be done. But they're not. We could shift into a 'doing' mode - where only the appropriate action is taken in the moment, as best as we can. Washing the dishes is washing the dishes - resisting it, making excuses, planning it, procrastinating, idealizing it - none of that is the act of washing the dishes. It's a simple principle on paper - but a powerful one. And that was just a minor example. Now consider everything you do - mostly with your mind, though you can include the body too - that is ineffective, that drains your energy, and that isn't simply taking the required action in the moment. There's likely a lot to be found in that domain. If you can stop doing that - then you'll have increased presence and energy.

Okay. It sounds like you really want to defend your suffering. What's your experience of it - regardless of stories and justifications?

Thank God.

@Breakingthewall What you think and do has consequences. Stories and belief systems aside, what's the relationship between what you think and your internal state? For instance, as an exercise, actually create a desire for something and the notion that it is out of reach. If you successfully do that, you'll suffer hopelessness, depression, frustration, or something else, as a result of your conceptual activity. That's because your present experience is now assessed to be "less than," based on your desire. Now, contrast that with embracing your current experience and being enthusiastic about what you're doing. Compare the difference in both action and outcome. So - what had to happen for suffering to arise? What didn't you do with your mind? How is that you went through such an ordeal - presumably pain-free - in the anecdote you shared above?

Recently learned that Buddha wasn't a vegetarian. Interesting.

Ratism for Dummies? Don't forget dogs, cats, bats, cockroaches, dolphins, turtles, shrimps, lobsters, crickets, whales, and chimpanzees.

On the one hand, you complain about the possibility that non-physical suffering might be largely self-generated - and on the other, you argue - through a personal example - that you didn't suffer during an actual surgery (though there's also the possibility that the pain was suppressed, which isn't the point here). 'Grounded' referred to your statement about suffering being the same as anything else - and the assumption that it is an 'arising that happens', that is, "something outside of my jurisdiction that somehow comes to me."