UnbornTao

Maybe, just make sure it isn't merely wishful thinking or pretension.

It has to be real, though - a breakthrough. In your experience you likely take yourself to be somewhere behind your eyes and between your ears - and this is perceived as a solid reality, despite whatever spiritual hearsay you may have adopted. Notice that you can't find yourself wherever you look. Whatever is found is perceived or received by you. You can't locate yourself within your experience or perception, which is where you're going to look.

"... but Mr. Führer, I'm Jewish." He'd probably make you pay for his coffee.

@Someone here The point is to actually do the practice: try to locate yourself. This solid sense of oneself - what is it comprised of? @Princess Arabia Left pinky toe.

@Hojo I lost track of what we were talking about. Your writing feels a bit opaque to me - that's just my opinion, though. Why are you focused on what others tell you in order to discern fact from opinion? How does that connect to this discussion? Anyway.... after this chat, you still have five fingers on each hand, right? I think you're being unnecessarily contrarian at times. We can still acknowledge the workings of certain aspects of reality, even the basic stuff everyone considers obvious. We don't want to claim everything is relative and so "anything goes." Not exactly sure what you mean by your second sentence, but I'd say I agree for the most part. This doesn’t sound accurate. Again, you're painting with a broad brush. Inventions like math may not be existentially or absolutely true, but in the relative sense they're quite grounded and objective - hence factual. You can't just mess around with physics, for example. Let's not relegate fact to mere imagination or arbitrariness. Is this deeply experienced for what it is? Even if it's true, as a notion it is just a starting point. Not happy with this, may edit.

Do we tend to bring up life circumstances as justifications for happiness? "I'm happy because of X and Y." Not that that's bad, of course. Still, it's funny - maybe even automatic. I'm not entirely clear on what happiness actually is. It may not be what we assume it to be. Is it an emotion? Notice, too, the tendency to search within our emotional states and dispositions, which we then link to our life prospects. How we feel about our lives becomes the barometer (is this the right word?) by which we measure our "happiness" in them.

Consider that it is not an experience, and hence not subject to the mind or perception. Simply set aside all those rumors and notions and get who you are.

Can you play the Better Call Saul theme? @Carl-Richard played it before, but never made a revised version.

It's not just semantics. Regardless of whatever conceptual overlay we add, there is something there that isn't subject to personal whims or belief. You can see that, no matter what is said, the condition itself remains unchanged - your "hardware" stays intact, metaphorically speaking. Call it five bananas or twenty four pencils, your body doesn't care. We're working on clarifying this difference - the one you seem to insist doesn't exist. For now, we're calling it fact and opinion. Put simply: an opinion is an assessment, whereas a fact "exists." It comes prior to your assessment about reality. So you needn't come to a conclusion or form an opinion, but observe what's there. Also, groupthink isn't necessarily negative, in case that's being assumed. You couldn't be reading this now without that social dimension - culture and others contributing to your learning, directly or indirectly. I understand the desire to assert one's autonomy, but don't ignore the enormous influence the social domain has on your experience. You couldn't even be "alone" without "lack of others."

What's your point in bringing that up? You have five fingers on each hand (probably). That's not an opinion. No groupthink is required to validate it - except perhaps the bit of math learning needed so you can actually recognize and count them yourself. But in any case, it's still a fact, even when it isn't consciously recognized or thought about. It exists independently of you, whereas opinion depends on you. You want to say that opinion comes prior to fact, but they may well be completely separate - or just different. Notice that, in essence, opining is often a secondary matter. I'm not sure this is the most effective line of questioning, but there you go.

Just in case.

Not sure how to respond. Could it be that you're giving opinion more weight than it deserves? If we consider the distinction between the objective and the subjective, we see that facts are, or at least can be, objective, while opinions tend to be subjective. No matter what your opinion is, it won't change "reality." Reality is independent of one's opinions. That's why we need to clarify what's what, rather than think in vague terms. A theory, observation, or hypothesis is more grounded in reality than mere preference or biased judgment. Then again, you seem to be using the term quite broadly, so that is that.

According to him, he did say that multiple times. If not, now you know. I'm not really into the conversation but thanks for letting me know.

Avoid spreading conspiracies.

@Raze has told you he's not a muslim.

Bring up examples of opinion, belief, observation, and hypothesis - preferably in the same context or regarding the same subject or claim. I'd say facts and observations are generally more reliable or accurate than merely offering an opinion. Opinion, as I currently see it (is this view itself an opinion?), is like a frivolous "commentary" on something. It might be subjective in nature. Put in its place, it is appropiate, but nothing more than that. It is not conclusive. When it comes to understanding, skill, truth, or performance, opinion is almost completely irrelevant. For example, we make a distinction between what an opinion is, and our opinions about it.

Happened to me once too, while driving.

I don't know. What about life? I bet we have yet to discover what it is.

@Yimpa a second Simpsons movie? Fuck enlightenment.

I meant that information can be about something other than opinion, but I see what you're saying here. I don't see why it would automatically have to be an opinion. Couldn't the position you arrive at be an observation, hypothesis, educated guess, etc? You could even not make up your mind about the matter, instead deciding to leave it open. I'm not very lucid now 😆 Also, are we sure our focus on logic is adequate here? Fair. We can also see by your example that opinion is often a frivolous matter. Logic could still be used to correct that wrong position, or one could simply admit that there's something more to discover.

💪

Got it, thanks.

How do you see logical conclusions? I'd say observation, proof, hypothesis, theories, feedback, unbiased assessments, inferences, and so on. It seems opinions reside in too superficial a domain depending on where they're being applied. "Wool generally comes from sheep" - that may be regarded as factual. Whether you like the kind of shirt made from it is another matter - subject to opinion. I don't quite follow your second sentence. Could the information itself still differ in nature from an opinion? I might, for example, share a mathematical formula with you, in which case whatever is personally opined about the information would be a moot point, it seems to me.