UnbornTao

Our problem is how we're holding our conception of these things, and not knowing that (or when) they are conceptions. State comes and goes. "State of consciousness," from the way you talk, is what I'd call state of mind, cognition, experience. This is rather essential to the discussion, as it strikes at the heart of the matter. You may well think that Ramana getting drunk, following a certain breathing pattern, taking some drug, being knocked "unconscious" (etc., etc.) would either "increase" or "decrease" his "consciousness." It's generally assumed that awakening is some sort of experience or state - a grandiose feeling, a state of bliss and peace, a shift in our awareness, a form of knowledge, a new perception of some kind. I follow your logic, and it sounds reasonable, but it is based on flawed assumptions. As I postulated, maybe not even dying made a difference for Maharshi in this context. On his deathbed, while his followers mourned his coming passing, he said something like: Where do you think I'm going? So what are we talking about? How can that realization be an experience or state? It is not possible to "find" or "cause" awakening in your experience, which is the place you'll look - and at the same time it is also possible, but this possibility is not logical or known. No practice or action does it as it is not a conditioned experience. Experience is all we have and know - all we are aware of. The actions you take are activities to engage in while "waiting" to make a leap. And what causes the leap? Mu? Perhaps not the best question. If you see someone promising enlightenment, or a "path" to awakening, I'd be wary of them - especially if they guarantee it. Most likely they're selling what people want - a pleasing, hopeful story - and as so-called spiritual people, we're no strangers to such things. I recommend you look for the other threads on this topic. Be one of the first here to actually put them to use.

@Miguel1 Our farts smell so much better. Spiritual farts.

I mean, obviously.

Is it, though? Seems to me like the anger is meant to manage the pain. Left alone, the hurt is just that - pain, and does not by itself imply or necessitate anger. That is, the pain comes first, the manipulation of anger, second. Feeling like a victim might occur at any point and throughout the process, yet it does not seem to be a requirement here (although we usually regard the anger to be caused by something else other than ourselves, so on a tacit 'victimization' feeling we agree.)

Solid advice. It doesn't necessarily mean that anger is "right" either; it's an emotion. A question to reflect upon: What is it? It's a pretty fundamental emotion. Hurt, in one form or another, underlies it.

Should have said that sooner.

Shit, not bad

Haha, good one. You got me pegged!

The self-reinforcing nature of belief is incredibly strong. Amen! *obligatory disclaimer to "test it out" for yourself.

Ask: What is an effect? What is a practice? And what is awakening if not an effect, perception, experience, insight, change of state, good idea, or feeling?

"Get enlightened, make no mistakes."

"My name is X, and I am an egoholic." Or self-holic. @TruthFreedom Good luck on your efforts; they will be worth it on so many levels.

Pretty unpretentious, down-to-earth, sobering. No place for (as much) fantasy.

Thanks for sharing. Dual booting and virtual machines on QEMU/Virt-manager are cleaner options, in my view - depending on what you want to do.

Let's keep the proselytizing going:

@Nemra @Leo Gura @aurum @Davino Sorry, busy. There's some basic misconception at the heart of this belief-fantasy that's clearly etched in stone for some of you. In any case, I'm not doing this again. Consider the Ramana example. Not even dying changed things for him, so why would getting drunk, meditating, fasting, feeling bored or tired, or taking other drugs? This is the impossibility being talked about. Nothing causes it or can cause it, because it is not a process. You do it. Why would they say that this is a fantasy? Hmm... There are plenty of threads you can find on this. Why not hold it possible that when these guys are talking, they're using consciousness differently than you? Basic point: you're talking about cognition and experience, even awareness, and the changes that can be found or enacted within those realms. You drink tequila, you get drunk. You fast for a month, another set of effects occurs. But Consciousness is not a function of the brain. I did share something, in the end.

Psychedelic retreat*

Duplicate:

The fuel one - insisting on a fundamental fallacy. Sounds convincing, though. People would rather have a way out (or way in) than sit with ignorance, even when that way is built on false premises. Ramana wouldn't have forgotten - or realized, or seen through - his nature depending on which mind state he happened to be in, had he developed dementia, suffered a stroke, or taken the drugs. This suggests the recognition isn't a neurochemical event or a state. The fallacy is thinking that within a dream you can ingest part of the dream in order to wake up. This impossibility can feel discouraging - everywhere you look is the dream - but that's only apparent. The possibility doesn't rest on the brain because it was never about the brain to begin with. Oh, fantasy is conformity. The kind we're unwilling to give up. When everything you have is drugs, everything looks like a brain - or some such analogy.

I love me some Vernon Howard.

No problem.

A historic moment

That's fair, I won't disagree. Still, take a moment to ground yourself. Lighten up on the alcohol. Let the nonsense go and let the chips fall where they may. Just consider that this mindset might have more to do with how you're using your mind than with anything the world or others are doing to you.

@Cornelia Watford Two points for Hufflepuff.