UnbornTao

Why do things always seem to or appear as? Is there something beyond our impression of things? In the end, isn't that what we have: the impressions that things make on us? Why is it that, when examined closely, things are far less certain and fixed than they first appear? I guess the questions being asked here are what substance and appearance are.

Various inaccurate analogies for "enlightenment" - illustrating how no method is direct. Direct consciousness is like: catching your own shadow taking steps to arrive where you already are building a bridge to reach the place you’re standing on an eye trying to see itself biting your own teeth You can’t find yourself within experience, which is the only place you can look, and yet, perhaps paradoxically, you can become conscious of your nature.

Well, be honest, or refuse the question. "None." "My religion is science." Or whatever.

Some sort of poisonous Mr. Burns' fruit. No idea.

Try to shift into the place where you are the source of - and the cause in the matter of - your experience. For example, deliberately create a joyful state now as a real experience. It is always the case that you generate it, but now you're invited to do it consciously. Play around with this concept. Be enthusiastic now - independent of circumstances.

Ok, thank you.

You might not be your self, but ok. Hey, enjoy your process.

Haha, what I'm saying is that the way you relate to something can cause unnecessary suffering.

I'm suggesting that you might be doing something similar to that.

I could take an experience of a simple headache and turn it into a fantastical story where I'm either a hero, a victim, etc. When having a headache: "I feel my kundalini awakening, it's real and it's my baseline, I feel it, it is prior to my brain, my body resists the experience, I can't do anything about it. But what does it mean? My third chakra has awakened. It feels like my sense of self is concentrated on the back of my head and might dissolve in one and a half weeks. The sensation is caused by my intense meditation session that I did yesterday, and because I ran naked on the street on a cold winter evening. My self is expanding into infinity, and I know it's real because it's there, I feel it, even though there's pain. My body loves the energy that's being rushing to my brain, and it seems to sustain it. Feels good." And I might well experience that as real. Thanks to the cosmology that I hold, I turned a headache into a wonderful kundalini awakening. Now I'm this higher being, able to expand my self thanks to that remarkable realization. And it was just a headache to begin with.

In what way am I being such that: I seem to be stuck? I’m approaching this (experience, event, person, object, whatever) the way I am - whether powerful, weak, afraid, brave, reserved, curious, confrontational, etc.? On another note, the following dynamic seems to be self-perpetuating: I assume X about myself, then act like X, and am therefore perceived by others as X, which gives me feedback that validates my initially adopted self-image: “I am indeed X. See? This [response, effect, circumstance, character trait] is the proof.” A reinforcing loop.

@Danioover9000 @Carl-Richard @zurew In short, what are they talking about?

Stop making shit up. Are you willing to listen and to experience something new, or do you want to keep resisting and insisting on your way of going about this? Are you open to moving from the position you find yourself in, or is this just complaining?

@Sugarcoat Why do you assume so much stuff? Interpretation may lie behind the experiencing of anything. The body works fine on its own. Resistance can be let go of. Does it objectively exist, or is it an activity? Embrace and turn into, the experience. Discover what's actually there.

What roles do you take on in relation to others? What do you assume about yourself - and about how others should perceive you? (Used AI to organize and polish up the list I had already made). In the presence of others, I feel I have to be, play, or show up as... 1. Social / Identity Roles The rebel, the “bad one” The good one, the obedient The charismatic leader The loner, the lone wolf The princess, the prince The macho, the feminine one The intellectual, the wise one The ignorant, the fool The spiritual, the mystic The religious The conservative The progressive, the liberal 2. Emotional / Affective States Vulnerable, exposed Strong, invulnerable Shy, reserved Angry, intimidating Ashamed, guilty Loved, cherished Admired, respected Doubtful, insecure Apathetic, disconnected Anxious, restless 3. Attitudes / Behaviors Controlling, dominant Submissive, compliant Funny, sarcastic Serious, rigid Agreeable, approved Disagreeable, confrontational Mysterious, reserved Open, transparent Inquisitive, skeptical Disillusioned, cynical 4. Self-Perceptions / How I Think Others See Me Problem, burden Inspiration, example Victim, misunderstood Center of attention Invisible, ignored Strange, unexpected Stupid, clumsy Intelligent, competent Eccentric, “crazy” Charismatic, charming

about is not it. A reaction is different from the thing being reacted to.

@Sugarcoat Well, stop it. Which is to say, get conscious of what the activity is doing. For example in the way you interpret events. Then you'll drop it naturally. Enjoy it either way as you're getting something out of it. Whatever it is you're going through, the way you relate to it may be causing unnecessary suffering. If you hold yourself as the victim of uncontrollable event, well, again, enjoy the ride. Doesn't it sound like it gets you something? It is something you've decided to take up. Grasp it as what it is, see it as unnecessary, then the soap opera can be let go of. The body works perfectly on its own regardless of self. Lighten up. You are already you and have always been, whatever that is. As an alternative shift, focus on moving towards what you want to experience and create.

To be honest I don't care about this topic, but that something is natural doesn't mean it has to take healthy forms. You're talking about something else. Whatever.

What's natural is the drive to have sex. Heterosexuality is the norm but I think both sexual predispositions have occurred throughout history.

Hey, enjoy!

@Sugarcoat Check out Break through Pain by Shinzen Young.

I think enlightenment and narcissism are completely different but not mutually-exclusive. Without transformation work, a person might be enlightened and narcissistic, arrogant, etc. Another aspect to consider is that deep, personal consciousness can make one act in a way that can be easily confused with traits such as arrogance and over-authoritativeness. As a society, we don't consider direct knowledge possible so this understanding might show up as preposterous to many. "Who do you think you are, claiming to know the nature of anything"? Hence the likelihood to consider these types of individuals as cult leaders. By the way, useful to consider that not every enlightened guy is doing the same work.

Pointing to the direction of experiencing what that's about. Listening is possible and up to the individual. Your advice is valid.

What's actually experienced? Notions can show up for us as an experience. Even raw as a distinction might be concept. You seem to be afraid of losing self, so are imagining a future possibility you're unwilling to experience. You likely also hold ideals about what that's like, etc. If one's already made up solutions and imagined causes for an activity don't work, you might as well remain open. I suggest not to fill in the blank where questioning would occur. Who knows, maybe if you relaxed, the activity would dissipate on its own. Maybe if the experience is allowed to be turned into, it'll go away organically. The good news is that you might not be your self, and at the same time it isn't going anywhere. What you and self are is up for grabs. So breathe, be honest and contemplate.

See? Might want to look into what payoff it gets you to keep generating that activity. A lot of it is being conceptually added on top of "experience" by you. Stop assuming shit.