UnbornTao

@CARDOZZO I wonder why these kinds of posts get so many reactions, and why some people are confidently feeling right on the sidelines without interacting.

Yeah, what is it? You've likely been depressed before, even if just slightly. What goes on in your experience when you go through that? What are you specifically referring to when you say you're depressed - is it the same as a physical wound, for example? What goes on in your mind, and how are you approaching life such that you experience that feeling? Where does it come from? Can you notice the assumption that depression is a "thing" - fixed, objective, some state that somehow "happens" or comes "to you", like the weather?

You were asking from an ideal that you have regarding what being "high consciousness" should look like. I know how to talk in such a way (you'd love it), but it's not relevant to listening to what's presented.

Mu

My desert. My Arrakis. My Dune. Pay some attention here.

I find this much better! Uhh, how many new religions are brewing at this very moment?

It's great reading some real progress and honesty from time to time. Cheers. I suspect most people haven't had this realization.

Just so people know, another AI-generated channel. And honestly? That's rare.

Depends on what field we're talking about. Being a charlatan tends to be the norm, though.

@Joseph Maynor I wrote a long response but ended up deleting it right away. As things stand, it would require a shit ton of effort to get this ability across. Consider what it takes to recognize skill in others, and what it takes to learn to sort out charlatans from the real deal. What does one pay attention to in this case? And how does one "listen"? Anyhow, something to look into.

Not at all. The problem is what you think knowing these things entails. I'm sure everyone thinks they already understand these terms, especially because they understand the English language. By past interactions it is clear as day that this is not the case.

Sharpening some basic distinctions such as experiential investigation, being grounded, belief, real honesty, and listening.

Independent of - and yes. An essential question to ask is: What is experience? I should have shared the full quote, but you must have watched the video at least once. "It's simply part of the dreadful ritual of egoity, and there's nothing enlightening about it whatsoever. It's deluding, plain old, that's it... With respect to the matter of realization it is useless, and potentially obviously deluding altogether." The central point is that it's not an experience. You don't call clipping your nails having an awakening, or getting drunk, etc. Just so with any state. There's a ton of background work to be done on this domain, and too big of a communication gap here. To me you're clearly prone to fantasy worlds. Years ago, for example, you claimed or implied that Ramana was beneath or "lower" because, in your mind, contrasted with some model or map you've intellectually devised, he "lacked" X awakening or some shit like that. You can probably see where this might be coming from, and it's always about states - often drug-induced, is it not? A state is a state, an experience is an experience, a direct apprehension is a direct apprehension. Getting the point would be the preferred option, as the length considering a point is rather secondary if it isn't gotten. I get the sense that these topics quickly turn into simplistic caricatures in one's mind, as with the self-deception business. In theory it sounds great and grandiose but in practice it tends to be an artifice or adopted idea, completely superficial and not something that is authentically operated from. "Yeah yeah, self-deception." And then you hear real feedback from genuine masters and it is plainly ignored in favor of one's preferred beliefs. If Leo fails to see this point I doubt that his followers will pay much attention to this dynamic. There are older threads about these topics, waiting to be put to good use. The main thing to do here is to look at what experience itself is - beyond one's ready-made answers and certainties, no matter how intelligent or reasonable they might sound. If awakening is not an experience, perception, feeling, state, or insight, what is it?

Chat away. I was saying that this is nonsense but not as an insult. And I don't exclude myself from that assessment at this point in the conversation. How about starting with: what is a belief actually about? Or why we tend to like hearing certain things and not others? But otherwise, speculation is not something I'm interested in, nor in retroactively confirming a view I already hold.

@kieranperez Japanese soldier keeps fighting 20 years after WW2.

It's a trap I've fallen into, too. But I understand it can come off that way. By necessity this position is going to be one of defiance since we are on this forum, whose whole shtick is the drugs. Given how things are arranged here, this stance must be inherently contrarian. To me, confusing an experience with direct consciousness is the trap, and where the real ignorance lies. Trigger gives us another hint that it is an experience. The arguments have been made. How about listening to them? That's all. For some reason there are always excuses not to hear them, no matter how many times it's said. Start with the Adi Da video - he knew what he was talking about. After all, the drugs are taken in the hopes of awakening - which is to say, that prior to undergoing this path, you really don't know what you're after. This is the beginning of the trap. Why do you seem to want to convince others - as much as yourself - about how many "awakenings" you've had? I don't do that, despite having multiple experiences that could be explained with "awakening" terminology. But if it's a perception or a change in state, that's what they are. "It's not an experience." - Ralston. "Potentially deluding altogether (about psychedelics)" - Adi Da. Those are my chosen quotes. Notice that one can interpret them in many ways, but the real point keeps being missed. And they seem much simpler on paper.

I appreciate that you don't tend to indulge in these kinds of social niceties, from what I can tell, at least. Sorry, it's mostly hoopla. Not that it isn't entertaining. Why did you take it personally and as an insult? It's an impersonal, collective fart. Just pointing this out so people don't take it very seriously. I'm afraid they will just go with a simplistic mental caricature-belief of either "yes" or "no" as a philosophical stance in response to the topic, and think this amounts to anything significant for the purpose of becoming conscious. Or worse yet, they might assume they already understand the communication. I don't do the "spiritual" world. It's not something I perform.

Every group thinks, whether implicitly or explicitly, that they are after the truth. Ask any religion.

Are you talking about a genuine awakening, or an experience induced by a drug? It's useful to get clear on what one is talking about. Peak, transform, better, contrast, baseline, state, appeal, happiness, strip away. These terms point to the subject at hand: perceptual experience. It seems you're essentially complaining that you're not on the drugs while living life.

Contemplation and thinking are not the same thing. The former could be thought of as a silent or still "waiting," or opening, aimed at uncovering the truth of something. It's not so much about trying to solve an equation as it is about facing a blank canvas - or some such metaphor.

You need to pay closer attention, then. Silly joke. For many, the fact that it was artificially generated gives it a hollow ring from the get-go. It's clear the author just wants to make a quick buck by selling overly simplistic (albeit reasonable on paper) narratives that make people feel validated. It is working, and most people in the comments don't seem to realize it is entirely AI. Would such a person care about being factual and accurate in the first place? I doubt they even care about the content per se. You saw the Himalayan AI BS stories. Getting eyeballs the easy easy way - by having AI create the content - seems to be their main concern, maybe the only one.

@Eskilon Not sure how you read it, but the conversation is nonsense. It's essentially speculation and an exchange of opinion.

@Leo Gura Did you even say 'thank you' once? I mean, did you know it was AI prior to posting it?

Virtually all of this conversation is a good, lengthy, smelly fart, except the original Q&A.