UnbornTao

Too much nonsense to unpack here.

Are you being sarcastic or not?

Come on. I also understand the self-aggrandizement aspect of the drugs.

Something about the trap of the psychedelic path.

I've noticed Leo has built up a good repertoire of excuses to avoid listening to this point in any way he can. Oh well.

If it's an experience, then that's the truth of it. It is something perceived, thought, imagined, felt, sensed, intuited, or conceived - in other words, invented. If it's a chemical transformation of the body-mind, then that's what that is. To start with, you call things by their name as best as you can. If you begin to make headway in differentiating between experience and something that isn't - or that perhaps transcends experience (even if just as a notion) - or in seeing that experience is relative, then you'll start to get the gist of it. A grandiose experience of feeling one with the universe is still an experience. Experience is also your whole life - again, everything you're aware of. And notice that it would be equally easy for me to talk like that, given the drug experiences and the videos watched from Leo. But I don't. Something to consider. Once again, it's already being said. If you're as open as you like to think you are, go back and really listen. I'm not undermining the possible benefits one might get from the drugs; I'm just pointing out the fantasy involved. Fantasy can also be powerful, beneficial, and seem real. That's what's appealing about it. Of course, it might not be seen for what it is. And any threat to it can be fiercely resisted, even if subtly or "spiritually." Otherwise, good luck. Have a good night. might edit tomorrow

That's why you're depressed.

A rationalwiki page. Remember this gem: how_leo_gura_argues_bingo.png

Let me look up that word. edit: checks out.

Isn't masturbation the ontological act of having sex with God? There, another Awakening.

This is a basic misunderstanding of the argument being made. As a reminder, what's being said is that drugs can't and don't increase consciousness nor lead to the truth. As for healing potential, improving one's life, and similar matters - that's another story. One's everyday experience is no more "true" than an altered mind state. Hmm, don't read this the wrong way. This is mostly so others don't do stupid things and mentally make up something weird. The assertion being made is this: an experience is an experience. When everything we have of reality is experience, what is enlightenment then? I don't know what the point of this is anymore. Hopefully it creates some space for people. From there, after abandoning these beliefs, we can look into the matter with fresh eyes and more openness.

Let's give it another shot, then. Yes. Never said otherwise. I said that everything you're aware of is your experience. That's why it was said that "it's not IT." Whether you're drunk, bored, or blissed out, this is still an experience and is not the same as enlightenment. Let's create some space around the notion of enlightenment. Without this space, this conflation will continue to be made unknowingly. It's the other way around. We can say that experience precedes concept, although experience can be heavily influenced by concept. It's not a bias against it, it's calling it what it is. I enjoyed the trips. But they're not true. Taking a bunch of substances and pretending this is the same as seeking the truth is what bothers me.

Sorry, I realized I fell into this discussion again. I should have learned by now.