UnbornTao

Okey dokey.

@Breakingthewall A physical gesture was used, rather than a word or symbol, to hopefully keep the focus on meaning and not language - which might derail the initial topic. In this case, it is more grounded as an exercise. If meaning is, in fact, given - and without this activity, it isn't found in anything - then it doesn't exist in the same domain as objective reality, as you seem to imply. Something has to occur (in one's mind) that isn't objectively there. We could say that the hand movement is objective, and therefore different from the meaning that is applied to it. Different meanings can be applied to the same perception or object - or, with some work, something could be perceived prior to the addition of meaning. So what does this tell us about it? Might add to this at some point. But don't take the chatter seriously and look into it yourselves.

Cool. Usually it's INTP, though. But interesting.

https://youtube.com/@SamaneriJayasara Good for spiritual entertainment.

Degenerate + genius? Gnoofus - gnosis + doofus. Gloof - genius + goof

Need to watch the entire video!

Imagining a worse experience than the comparatively minor one you may be currently suffering. That above should put the pain into perspective and help us lighten up on it. We often do the exact opposite: we imagine a better experience than the one we're having, confessing that it isn't enough or needs fixing.

Somebody make up some new words about being an idiotic genius. Ignosapien. Not a fancy one. Subtleism - whatever Awakenism? - sistematized beliefs about what enlightenment is and means Etceterasis - rethorical device; the compulsive use of "etc." after two half-baked examples because you can't (or won't) come up with a full list. Etc.

No problem! Thanks for the thread/questions.

@Breakingthewall Ok, appreciate that. What's the cause and what's the effect in the example above? Meaning isn't a fact of the universe, but rather a human need. The hand movement doesn't have to mean anything in itself. But since we're calling it a 'gesture', we've already confessed that it means something. How does meaning come to exist? Also, why would it automatically engender anger and hatred? It might just as well elicit different reactions - depending on what it means to us. As I joked with Carl, in a different culture, that gesture could mean 'I love you'. So, we can recognize two different processes in this example - on the one hand, the particular hand movement itself; on the other, the meaning that is superimposed onto that perception. These are different in nature.

But in the Dazumbé tribe (in northern Congo), that gesture is an affectionate one, meaning "I love you." So... Btw, I had GPT make up that tribe.

Thanks for the input. In relation to the following picture, see if you can recognize, or pull apart, the component of meaning - as it occurs in your experience: What does the gesture mean? What's your reaction upon seeing it? Is it offensive? How so? Can you perceive it before interpreting it?

@Breakingthewall You love to talk.