Travis

@cetus56 @Wormon Blatburm I appreciate your comments. These are more excerpts from this ongoing dialogue. What are your thoughts on these? I'll spend some time with the sutra. Thanks, Ilona. 1) Is awareness the witness? 2) Is there a witness? 3) Are you the witness? The answer to all three questions is the same. Awareness=witness. No-thingness is just there allowing for everything. What came to mind when I saw those questions was something like this (and I know it's just a story): It's like "no-thingness" hung itself on a hanger, and it started adding little pieces to itself until it formed a human out of itself, and the human can experience so many things, but it knows that it can only ever be itself. That's the best way I know how to answer the questions. _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Just wanted to share what I've been noticing: This work is pure faith. The most pure kind of faith, because there is no choice of faith. Faith is the only option. Truth is. Whatever is untrue is going to go away. It will be "witnessed." Faith stands untouched. It's like, for all of these years, I was just pretending not to be awake. It's like the mind would say, "yeah, you're awake, but let's not concern ourself with that. There are other things to do." Strong feelings are manifesting. Illusion being slowly ripped apart is leaving more room for feelings to be felt. I am very conscious of my surroundings. The noises of the city are all noticeable. It feels like it can be overwhelming. I'm finding a bit of comfort in knowing that whatever a human being can experience, it is never too much for what "is." What "is" will always be there to contain it. These are just some things I've been noticing.

Can I really dip in and out of this at "will"?

Wow. This is just what is coming up, so bare with me: is pure love all that really exists? Like this weird thing that couldn't possibly have a label or meaning? It's nothing though? How can no-thingness have any qualities? Does its quality of swallowing all other qualities make it its, necessarily, only quality? Paradox as fuck? What the hell is going on? Not worried though

The most profound insight I could ever have about enlightenment is just as much not "it" as the most simple of thoughts. Everything is perfectly and entirely swallowed up in "it," whatever the fuck this "is" is.

Hahahahaah

Also, @Leo Gura I also saw for the first time "what the fuck is a tree?" That question is exactly the same question as "why is this nothingness here?" I'm looking forward to digesting all of these implications over "time"

@Azrael Dope

If we can, I haven't figured out how.

@Leo Gura Damn Leo. You sure know how to get me motivated! lol I'm super glad I'm doing this work. Thanks for everything man. I was hesitant for a while, but as I became more confirmed in myself I started to relax into this work. Glad you're here bro.

@Atom Is this the same Atom? Did you change your picture? Haha. Glad to see you still hanging out!

Alrighty, thanks.

Do it at night in a pitch black room, with blinders over your eyes and ear plugs in your ears.

@CA19 fuckin hilarious

@xXguitarsenXx also, as you're considering everything above, take time to listen to yourself. What do YOU believe is best for you at this stage? Only you know where you're at in this process. Don't answer too quickly. Take 20 minutes and try to get a sense of what is the next step for you. Be radically honest with no thoughts or intellectual bullshit getting in the way of where you're being guided. Once you have something that seems clear, follow it. If it's still not clear, do it again. You said yourself that you have a ton of information regarding enlightenment. Be confirmed in the fact that you have enough info to be able to trust yourself with the next step.

UG Krishnamurti too! He had an electrifying personality, and he was truth-realized. Check out his YouTube videos. They're a joy to watch Until you have an enlightenment experience there will be no direct distinction between authentic and inauthentic, but you can sort of bridge the gap by moving towards authenticity, if you listen to what's inside. Move closer to that each day. Let it guide you. Be stone cold honest with yourself in contemplation and be as open as you can to having a direct experience of the truth during meditation. Let these things guide you.

@Actualized Disciple welcome. Good luck on your journey.

@day-maker I am. KCMO

@Atom Yeah I wanna see too.

@Actualized Disciple I think the video you're referring to is "Grasping the Illusory Nature of Thought."

I'm completely confused about the benefits regarding enlightenment, and I don't know if it's a worthwhile goal, especially in light of the self-actualization goal. Self-actualization has a clear goal, and you can live a fulfilling life always improving and being deeply satisfied with the progress. Enlightenment is about truth. I thought that that's what I valued most in life until I delved deeper into enlightenment work, and came away with the impression that truth really isn't all that great from the human standpoint. As McKenna says, "enlightenment is a booby prize," "I wouldn't recommend enlightenment to anyone," etc. Steven Norquist and UG Krishnamurti say the same thing. And these three seem to be the most convincing when it comes to what enlightenment is and isn't. They speak with such authority; the kind that I don't see from anyone else. And yet, they extol its awesomeness. WTF? I don't understand the dissonance. Why talk people out of enlightenment if it's the most amazing thing that a human being can know? (Which, by the way, I don't doubt that there's a perfectly sound reason to account for the dissonance; I'm just really confused why the chasm seems so large). I understand there are many many others who promote enlightenment completely, but I wonder if these people really haven't 'seen' the Truth. It makes sense to me, since that's how it is with most things. Most people aren't weapons experts, and will tell you all the right ways to handle firearms, but when you receive training by a bonafide professional, you're 'awake' and understand that so much of what you were taught by others and have grown up around is complete bullshit, and you 'get it.' I'm wondering if since the cases against enlightenment are so few, that they're the "real deal" so to speak. Maybe humans really shouldn't 'see' enlightenment. Especially when Norquist, McKenna, and UG all say that we're all already enlightened and no one is enlightened. Their experience is the exact same as ours. It seems that they're just aware of how unnecessary and pointless it is for humans to become aware of Truth. For me it seems to come down to maximizing my fulfillment in life, and I don't know whether self-actualization or enlightenment is the better prize. I might lean towards enlightenment being the better prize if it weren't for these enlightened people saying that no one really wants enlightenment. Granted, Norquist and McKenna both value their enlightenment more than they could possibly value anything else, but why the reluctance to recommend that everyone take the journey? They say if you have a loving family, friends, and a good life, then stay away from enlightenment. If enlightenment is, to paraphrase Norquist, the most important thing a human being can ever know, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in this life or the next, then why the fuck do they discourage enlightenment so much? I'm just frustrated with the many different accounts of enlightenment, and why there isn't a clear consensus. If it's Truth, and Truth is awesome, then every Truth-embodying individual should be singing the same song. If Truth is not-so-awesome then I can see why there's the disparity. I get the whole wanting Truth for Truth's sake thing. I thought so too. I thought I wanted Truth. But coming to realize what Truth could potentially mean to me as an organism, 'I' don't really want that, and that's why the 3 guys I mentioned said the same thing. No one would want it, according to them. You die if you get it. A trade that no one in their right mind would ever make. I admit, I over-intellectualize the shit out of damn near everything that I come across (neurosis), and I don't doubt that that is a factor in the possibility of me not seeing things more clearly, but damn. There seems to be a clear line drawn in the sand regarding the 'experts' on enlightenment, and one side might have it more right than the other. What do you all think?

If I've come to know anything in my life, it's that I'm not going to be content with anything that I don't feel is 'the end' of seeking. I guess it comes down to being patient and living life with both eyes open and being open to the next step, whatever that may be.

@Lorenzo Engel @Ayla Thanks for your words

@Patrick @Leo Gura Yeah, this has me very confused as well. Accounts by McKenna and Norquist are so completely different than the one's by Ralston, Spira, and other no-nonsense people. Why such a disparity? Are McKenna and Norquist just the only 2 enlightened beings and everyone else is faking it? Is the process of enlightenment completely unpredictable? They both say no one actually wants enlightenment because basically the price is everything. Honestly, it seems incredibly dangerous, the way those 2 put it.

Initially, this idea sounded pretty cool. Now I'm wondering if a video like this would just lead us to intellectualize the enlightenment process even more than we already do. Like, damn I'm at this stage and I want to be at this next stage. Uh, how can I use my mind to get me to that stage quicker? Stuff like that.

@Telepresent Thanks! Your post was helpful. It kind of loosened me up from what goes on a lot of times in my mind, which goes something like "I have to find good methods for becoming awake and focus my energy there." But, like you're saying, all hours of the day as you go about your routine are excellent opportunities for observation and contemplation. I suppose as long as I continue daily to practice deepening my consciousness through awareness and contemplation I can't go wrong.