Shir

@Nexeternity wow...thank you for all the amazing insights !!!! <3

@Buba Wow...now THAT is a deep, deep question that I believe is beyond philosophical. As a Psychology student, I am really intriguied and had been wondering that myself but didn't articualte it till I read your post !

Hey everyone ! <333 I was curious on your opinion on this topic, as I'm MUCH more of a spiritual person than anything else; so, this topic personally has nothing to do with religion per se, what so ever. For reference, I'm a 25 year old young lady that's never been in a relationship (at least not a 'conventional' one, aka long-distance relationships till now - never got to meet the guy; there have been only 2 major ones I'd say - been deeply in love, both broke up with me). So naturally as you can imagine, I'm a virgin. And actually, a virgin in ALL sense of the word...sadly never even held hands nor kissed a guy...or even been on a date (never been asked in person) Which to be honest saddens me as the years go by because I do not consider myself a non-social person and am very friendly and welcoming, not trying to toot my own horn but just being honest about my situation personally. Other than this, I'm a heterosexual lady who can verify that I do hold a lot of sexual desires and wants (basically do desire sex, to speak rawly). When I was younger, I felt like the "right" thing to do (for me personally) was to wait till marriage for sex, and for the longest time I was very okay with this notion. However, being as I'm NOT religious, I know that personally speaking I couldn't actually say this as it would seem "silly" to be this way if I'm not religious/doing it for religious reasons. If I had to say why I still wanted to wait for marriage, for sex, I'd say it would have to do with spiritual and self respect reasons (still holds true to this day) Thinking about this more as time went by, I had gotten "softer" on the issue and I thought that maybe it was okay to have sex (PERSONALLY SPEAKING) - if I was engaged? Basically, I could possibly have sex before marriage if it was actually to the same guy I'm of course getting married to. To try and summarize this so far, in a perfect world, ideally speaking - I would rather save myself for marriage and if not that, than at least have sex with said engaged partner, beforehand. Today, I feel very torn about all of this because to me this is a topic I hold close to my heart as I am a sensitive person and I want to respect my body the best way I can. This is sad to say, but to be honest one of the reasons I've held off sex for so long (other than said reasons + insecurities) is because I'm afraid of "giving it up" to the wrong person. I know I'd be devastated and hurt, as dramatic at that sounds. To me personally, sex is SO much more than the act itself and I truly want to share it with someone I deeply desire, want and am madly in love with. And, I feel like that commitment of "marriage" makes it that much more special per se. That being said, I know that just because someone has sex AFTER marriage, that doesn't actually mean "all will be well" - I know that there are a lot of things to take into consideration, like sexual compatibility ect...which I'm very open to discuss deeply before getting into anything ( if someone was curious that I'd neglect that haha). Other than this, when I find myself digging deeper into my emotions and reasoning behind all this, I've noticed that I hold this fear - I'm frankly afraid of having sex with someone, and them leaving me/breaking up with me. I cannot help but think how used I'd feel, no matter the pleasure that might be beforehand. I'm terrified of getting used, especially being a virgin for so long and putting such importance on this topic personally. I also wanted to state that - I have no problem with other people doing what they want with their bodies and I know I have absolutely NO right to judge - as long as they are being safe, and respecting the other person and themselves, I think all is well. I just wanted to say this because I really do not want to come across judgmental or a snob - I'm ALL for people doing what's right for them, including myself. <3 As for myself, I have gotten "offers" for sex before but clearly turned them all down and always stated that I'm not into hook-ups (nor will I ever be tbh) and am looking for something serious in my life, as I always felt so to begin with. From everything I've said above, I think you can sort of get the jist of the situation. Basically, I don't feel like (where I live) there are ANY man who would even bother being this "traditional" and wait for marriage/engagement in order to have sex (which tbh I totally respect and understand that view as well) and to make matters "worse"..men that would actually be up for something like this are of course considered religious and that already doesn't make me a candidate per se. So from the dating pool I basically don't feel like I fit anywhere, per se. For example, from where I live, secular ppl would be like wtf? no sex? 25?! but religious people wouldn't bother with me as I'm not religious of course, according to them at least. I know, technically speaking that there are men in the world who would be respectful and wait and respect their partner (if that's what she wants) but sadly I don't feel like there are such men here, where I'm from. The ONLY thing I've found close to my situation are the Christian community (traditionally speaking) that I've seen online in the US that hold similar virtues to having sex only after marriage/saving oneself for marriage. I've seen people who could easily date one another in those communities, as they of course hold similar if not identical beliefs and virtues. That being said, I'm not a Christian but wanted to bring this up as an example how I don't fit it anywhere from the varies examples above till now. *Sigh* I know I shouldn't blame the fast-paced money hungry, instant gratification, sex filled world we live in, but I cannot help but lose hope in finding someone similar to me that would want to wait as well. The thing is, the "last guy" from the 2 guys was actually a perfect gentleman and held virtues close to mine, including this, however he wasn't from where I live (no wonder I keep falling for men that aren't from here) and that in itself was a blessing and not because he was far away as it is (US) but also because he broke it off with me. To be honest, other then the "finding men" problem that would be okay with me on this issue, I actually don't even know if I'm being too hard or rather that I'm actually doing the "right thing" with myself on this issue (sex). I know I should never do anything I'm uncomfortable with yet I have this sad feeling that no one would want me unless I put out in a relationship...at least where I live. I feel like nothing is sacred anymore and that there's no hope (in today's world) about finding a guy who would respect you enough to want to wait for sex. I don't know if it's just me feeling so but I cannot help but express my concerns. Phew...that was a long one, so sorry. I'd LOVE to know your thoughts about my situation - am I doing the right thing? should I even be hopeful? Thank you SOOOO MUCH for reading everything ! <333

@Annie Hey there ! <3 First off, thank you for your comment and thoughts - I really appreciate it Awee...I'm so sorry to hear babe ! I hope you're doing okay despite that. Sending you warm hugs ! <3 I'll try my best to remember this, thank you for sharing your thoughts with me ! Thank you so much for this important advice, I'll be sure to keep this in mind if I do manage to find a future partner <333 !!!

@wavydude I am going to kindly contradict that. I think that's bullshit. Like I said, just because someone is technically a virgin - doesn't mean they are going to be shitty in bed. Like for real, we aren't living in the middle ages and sex is pretty much talked about everywhere, shown everywhere. I KNOW I won't be shitty in bed, and that might seem like a smug thing to say but hey, if there is actually ONE thing I'm pretty sure about ALL THIS thread - is that I won't be shitty in bed. Granted, everyone has their preferences and what they love, still doesn't mean I'd fall short on something per se. Also, just for a quick analogy - I know this has nothing to do with sex - but that's like saying just because you never painted/drew anything...that you're gonna be a shitty artist. Which that is freaking dumb. There are MANY talented individuals who never painted/drew in their life and once they did, they were naturally amazing and extremely talented artists. And yet, there are ppl who paint and draw for years and never come close to that capacity of such talent. You could say the exact same thing about sex - just because you've been fucking for years, doesn't mean you're this amazing lover. And so, just because I haven't had sex yet - doesn't mean I'd be shitty at sex. You don't even know me to begin with, and that's a pretty shitty assumption to say to me and ALL virgins in general. And you know what? I get it, you think all that I want is bullshit. But, what I think is real bullshit is someone my age giving into society and having sex just to please a partner when they don't feel comfortable about it. When they don't want it. Then they feel all the heartbroken and regret ever sleeping with someone to begin with. Like damn, just because I respect myself and am not sleeping around like everyone else and actually have standers and have desires of what I'd like in life - that means I'm the bullshit one huh? Interesting. That being said, I realize that things don't always work out the way you plan, trust me I know exactly how that feels. But, as long as I'm going to stay true to myself and hold myself high and actually listen internally to what feels right (example - staying a virgin until I meet the right guy) then heck, I'm going to do exactly that. I don't need a reality check. I don't need to be belittled by men like you. Thank you very much. Since you were so curious then yes. I do both. Happy? I'm no prude, I have sexual desires and urges and yeah I will admit it IS hard. But you know what's harder? being heartbroken.

@wavydude Wow...I appreciate your response and the time you took to write all this but there's no need to be so harsh about it. Like you said, life isn't perfect...I AM VERY PROUD to be virgin because it has been the best thing I could do for myself sexually speaking, yet of course I do admit to having sexual desires and urges! It's only natural. I really do not see it as a bad thing at all. I'm sharing my personal question with the forum in order to gain more opinions about this as my situation IS different because it has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious practices ! aka saving yourself for marriage for religious reasons. And you know what? If I really wanted to get some good dick, you best be sure I could. And no I'm not even bluffing - it's literally just a phone call away. and furthermore - to me sex IS sacred AND special ! I'm not saying it's the same for everyone nor does it need to be but I sure as hell and not going to let you belittle me and make me feel like I should treat sex like everyone else. I take sex VERY seriously and will never make absolutely any compromises whatsoever about sex. You best believe that ! And so what if I can describe what sex means to me? are you serious? you're saying like that's a freaking crime ! how absurd of you to think that I don't know what sex is or could be like....hello I'm 25 and have had PLENTY of open conversations about sex from the inside out. And, just because I'm a virgin - that doesn't mean I'd be shitty at bed. It's asshole jerks like you that think that virgins are timid little fragile women who know less then you do. I hate to break it to you but you're honestly the one living in a bubble, not me. I promise you that when I do have sex, no one would be able to tell if I was a virgin or not. I know what I want EXACTLY, what I desire and what I crave from a partner. Just because I'm not out there acting all slutty about it, doesn't make me any less of a person than any other experienced women. Like whoa aren't you the judgy asshole huh? Moreover - I know what I'm worth and if a guy doesn't want to wait for me then guess what, he wasn't meant for me and I deserve better than that. Trust me, if the tables were turned then obviously the same can be said about me. I'm not trying to sound sexist but everyone has their standers and has every right to feel comfortable and behold themselves and respect their own dignity You know what? THINGS CAN CHANGE. Emotionally and Physically ! and just because you feel like that wasn't so for you, doesn't mean that others will feel the same, including me. Furthermore - you'd be freaking surprised and just HOW many couples are actually okay with saving themselves AND are pleased with their significant other ! It doesn't take a genius to know that sexually compatibility is very important and as long as you're very, very open and honest about what you want, desire and have...then there's nothing more you can do then well, doing the do. That's EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING ALL ALONG. FEAR !

@Sevi Hey There ! <333 First off, would like to say thank you for you honest and sincere reply - I was worried I won't be able to hear another ladies perspective and this was actually comforting, in a way I'm relieved to here that your situation is close to mine...makes me feel less lonely haha. I completely agree - I was actually aiming for that if "all else fails"...I think the problem is that I want to feel fully committed to and special in a way, hence my idea of marriage/saving myself for marriage. Which I know seems silly (in this day and age, I guess?) but I think I'm just protecting my heart more than anything else tbh (well not gonna lie, being as I am with this attitude, it helps that I don't have to worry about any unwanted pregnancies and or STD's). I have tried to understand them more so in the past few years yes...even the sexual, lustful part which tbh I very much like in a man and WANT to respect it and honor it because I totally see that side in myself as well...I think that's why I'm soo held back...because I understand BOTH sides of the coin (for lack of a better term for it) and still want to honor "him" and "myself" which I don't know how I could do that based on my fears. Hence why I thought that maybe waiting till being "engaged" could be the sweet spot...for having sex? I can imagine it would also help to determine sexual compatibility and if something goes wrong, well at least I know I was special enough to be engaged to...I guess. Thank you ! <3 and omg I totally agree...I would never make a person do it "my way or the high way" sort of deal haha. Basically what I'm trying to say is, I respect the other person enough in order to not lead them on into thinking they'd have sex right then and there ect...so in the sense I'd only want to be with a partner that he himself was willing to do something similar like I wanted, hence my heartbreak from the recent guy I loved. Thank you for this...it was very insightful ! As I was reading this...I had a realization about myself. I have absolutely NO problem being emotionally vulnerable (if anything, I'm personally all for it and have been exactly that in my last "2 relationships"). However, the issue I have at hand is being Physically vulnerable AND Emotionally vulnerable...I cannot even fathom being able to do the two in something that is less than an engagement/marriage situation - for myself only. I'm honestly just afraid of "giving my all" to someone I trust, love and adore; only to see it break down and crumble away. I feel like I've given my heart before, twice now, only to be disappointment and heartbroken. It makes me terrified to think what would happen and more so how I'd feel to give away "my body" to someone and go through all that heartbreak all over again...I hope you see my problem here. I know love isn't perfect and cannot be calculated like math but in a sense I'm trying to avoid heartbreak as much as possible at this point. I think that being 25 and still a virgin, makes me feel all that much more vulnerable because I've kept myself...to myself all along and haven't let anyone in that far. I fear like I'm waiting for this perfect guy and I don't even know if he exists tbh. Not to mention that, my standers seem very silly considering I'm not religious...people might shy away from someone like me because there isn't an apparent reason that is holding me back from sex, in a sense. *sigh* Anyways - sorry for the long winded post - you really got me thinking ! I appreciate your reply, thank you very much ! <3

@aurum Of course I'm afraid on the matter of what would happen if I had casual sex...hence why I prefer not to even go there. Like I mentioned in my original post; I've had "offers" but denied each and everyone of them. I would honestly never be happy with casual sex; I get very easily attached and with all due respect, I prefer to be treated as more than just a one night stand. Which sadly, you men think all women want casual sex and that isn't the case. And you know what? I AM proud to be a virgin. Not because I'm "better" than anyone else who isn't a virgin (FAR from it) - but because I listened to myself and did what's best for me and respected my integrity. So by all means, you can call this an act...I call it having some self respect for my body and not giving it away carelessly to any other horny guy that couldn't care less about you, basically treating you like a walking pussy. Am I sexually frustrated? Do I have needs and desires too? OF COURSE. I would never deny that and am VERY honest about things like that. Aka...I'd never lead the guy on into thinking he can have a piece of ass just for the fun of it but at the same time will admit to feeling sexually frustrated (if asked about, that is). Furthermore, just because I have self respect and don't want to throw away my virginity and act all sleazy and hook up with every guy there is- doesn't mean I should fall into the trap of "being like everyone else" just to prove a point. I don't NEED to have casual sex in order to prove a point to you nor anyone else. Thank you for you input and by all means - you can keep on not-believing me all you like. Good day !

@aurum First off, thank you for the honest and detailed reply ! I really do appreciate it <3 As I've said towards the previous comment, it's wonderful seeing the male's perspective on things and I can imagine it would help me understand the topic better for myself, outside myself. I appreciate the honesty and read all of your reasons - I completely agree with you when you said that it's a natural urge, sexually speaking. Hence why I've found it really challenging for me because tbh I do see myself as a women with a passionate/mid-high sex drive (I know that might seem silly to say, being a virgin, but I feel like this way now then I can only imagine how the real deal might make me feel). As you can imagine, it's hard to repress these feeling BUT at the same time I'm still very happy and proud to be virgin, as much as I'm "denying" myself of the pleasures of real sex, per se. With sexual chemistry, I totally agree as well...that's a HUGE factor in any relationship (I can imagine, apart from asexual couples) and sadly I HOPE that if I do same myself for marriage, that I'd at least be able to get a glimpse and see for myself if sexual chemistry does exist...somehow. I'm a VERY open person and am open to anything kinky ect so hopefully lots of talking and getting to know the other person more would do it's justice. The third reason - hmm...I can see how you said it's a guy thing. No offence but I'd never be that "type of girl" to hook up and then find out if I want to have a relationship with a guy. Sorry to sound blunt but it seems very cheap to me. So I just know I'd have no part in the hook-up culture whatsoever and am proud to admit that. However, if this is something that works for you then by all means - kuddos to you. Thank you for your reply !

@SFRL Haha, this was HILARIOUS !!!! Thank you for the good laugh Always interesting seeing the male perspective of things !

Hey Everyone ! First of all I would like to mention how wonderful Leo is and how I'm thankful for these forums and to everyone that's been brave enough to have shared their own story, struggles and feelings <3 What a wonderful community you all are ! To try and make this as short as possible, my personal problem is that I'm still madly in love with this man who is 3 years my senior (I'm 24) and we had what you would call a non-conventional relationship. Nothing illegal nor immoral of course but unconventional nonetheless (basically had a romantic relationship that came to an end before we got to meet - HE dumped me). What happened was, we'd known each other online for literally 10 years on and off and kept in contact no matter what; even when we both thought we lost each other. Mind you, this was before any smart phones so you can imagine that it wasn't as easy nor had any instant gratification flare to it all the time. I knew I grew feelings for him over the years and when he confessed his love for me at the beginning of the last two years (so basically after 8 years) - you better believe I naturally spilled my feelings as well and naturally fell in love with this man. From that point on, we talked literally almost every day if not everyday and you can only imagine that all that was missing was actually having each other physically (I mean in the sense of being able to hug and feel each other). We would talk about everything and anything and he literally meant everything to me. We of course had technical issues as of course we wanted to meet up and see for a fact if we had the same chemistry in person and see how things grew, but that only came about after we confessed our feelings. I'm personally not from the US and sadly got denied a VISA. I knew it wasn't forever but he understood that I did my best of course at the time with what I had. He was too busy trying to finish Grad school at the time and me being supportive of it, I never pressured him to come here instead. I would like to please say that this man even talked about marriage and rings and how I would like my hand to be asked in marriage ect (he was VERY interested in knowing my personal feeling and opinions about this) and even said he felt like I'm the one...and I honestly felt the same. I cannot even begin to put into words how much he means to me. You can guess how devastated I was once he ended the relationship on a less than kind note as well. I felt like it started to die on his side (even though I stayed pretty much the same and never wavered in my emotions) and as time went by (it felt like a very painful and slow death to me. It started with him not returning any "I love you" anymore...told me to literally stop calling him by his pet name (nothing offensive to begin with and he accepted it all this time) and he got more and more emotionally distant from me. I'm sure any other women reading this can know how heartbreaking this is, especially coming from a man whom you feel is everything for you and means the world. For reference, I'm a woman that literally never had a bf before and never gets asked out,never kissed anyone or been sexual with anyone (I have desires and urges of course yes - I'm not asexual). I will admit I am a friendly person by nature and try my best to take care of myself and present myself to the world in a good fashion for my age and you know, be me and cute as I can..so I'm not an actual hermit but I realize that it does pain me, the fact that no one really cares enough to approach me nor ask me out ect. So you can only imagine how deeply I fell into this and this is all really and truly a very hard thing in my life right now. It's been literally a year since we stopped talking (I cannot for the life of me send a text as I'm beyond hurt). This man turned into a whole 180 towards the end, suddenly claiming (after ME having to milk this info out of him) that he has no feelings for me anymore and isn't interested in me anymore. I realize that there are MANY other man in the world but what truly pains me is that I know there is only one of...him. For lack of a better word. I know this may sound stupid but it's a huge part of my heartbreak because I felt such a deep connection with him and given the fact that no one actually wants me here nor even gives me the time of day to get to know me...it feels like I'll literally be alone forever romantically. Although it's been a full year without contact, I know deep down in my heart that I still love this man just the same - no matter the amount of pain nor anger that I felt beforehand during all this. I realize everyone has every right to be happy in their life and I'm not saying he doesn't deserve to do what's best for him, but I wish he were more honest with me because towards the end I asked (feeling my womanly intuition) that he was cheating on me...I even asked if he was suddenly dating someone else and he said "kinda yes" and when I asked more he suddenly said no...but when I mention said woman he said "it's complicated" but they never had sex. So what the fuck? do any of you men understand this behavior?? And, I know this is not a conventional relationship as this was for the full duration of how it lasted - a long-distanced relationship...but I can assure you that I treated and respected it as if it were any other romantic relationship nontheless. I know you guys might laugh and everything but this all meant a lot to me and I'm still having a REALLY hard time getting over this man. He honestly felt like the one...and still does. I would feel better if I knew that somehow things would work out and that there were other potentional partners for me but since I mentioned that I literally never get asked out (even if I'm the one giving the attention and trying myself) - the chances feel slim. I realize that there is SO MUCH more to life than relationships and love and am currently trying to work on myself and trying to work hard at uni...but trust me this is weighing heavy on my heart and I'd be lying if I didn't say that I still cry about this every 2-3 days or so. Very sorry again for how long this is but trust me this was the shortest version I could make... Any thoughts, words and solutions would be gladly appreciated ! <333

@Natasha Haha ! Gosh that's not a bad one at all lol...never thought of it to be honest - thanks for the advice !