Telepresent

Yeah, you're right, you're so much better. Let's laugh at the inferior. Cos we're so fucking developed and all

A glorious host of voices who have not answered your question, and provided a load of assertion without proof. Think on that

+ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_experiencing = a beautiful way to help cut your unconscious reactivity to your past I.e. Cut your bull

@Dlenger1 I'm big on spiritual autolysis so I don't think intellectualism is necessarily a terrible thing - though just going around and around asking questions and letting verbal answers pop up won't get you anywhere. And absolutely, there comes a point where the thinking has to stop. But if your mind is determined to ask, ask, ask, then you can at least adapt it to a more useful form of asking. That is, deconstruction. See, the questions and answers you are repeating are based on foundational assumptions which are taken for granted as true. So let's do a little deconstruction... And so on and so on. It might appear absurd, and I'm not necessarily saying anything about the answers to these questions - because frankly that's not the point. The point is to see how these questions exist on frameworks of assumptions of beliefs, which themselves sit on frameworks of assumptions of beliefs, which themselves... Personally, I find it very useful to attack from both directions. Rupert Spira, for example, goes for a very direct 'look at consciousness' approach. Autolysis comes at it from the other direction - pull apart the beliefs. I think both have their place

Are you experiencing all of consciousness as you? Or are you experiencing consciousness, and defining thoughts as 'me', and the sound from outside the window as 'not me' (not necessarily in such a blatant way, but experientially, or in belief)? If consciousness is all there is, then all that is MUST BE the same thing. Including the thoughts and feelings that are defining themselves as 'me', separate from 'not me'. We might think of them as 'made of' consciousness. As those thoughts and feelings are demonstrably not all there is, but 'made of' consciousness, then anything that they may be called cannot be consciousness in totality. And most probably, they are called 'me', or 'mine'. So the 'you' that is attempting to define yourself probably is constructed from those thoughts and feelings, but trying to lay claim to consciousness/all there is by using the term 'me' in two ways simultaneously: to refer to itself as an experiential or believed thought/feeling/entity, but also attempting to use the word 'me' to mean consciousness/all there is. The problem is in labeling: in what is meant by the words 'me' and 'you'. You need to pull them apart.

Then?

@Peo Maybe stop asking & answering, & just experiencing those sensations. It's really hard to not answer, particularly if you KEEP asking Try it

Read the user guidelines. This thread will be locked

@WelcometoReality ☺?

Mind can say it, sure. Believe it? Know it? Hmm

@WelcometoReality ok, cool, thanks for the clarification. I figured that was probably the case but, as someone who has also fought with those issues, wanted to make sure they weren't treated lightly. I distinctly remember how opposite-of-helpful suggestions like "just stop worrying so much" were, & reacted to a perceived similarity in your comment. Apologies if I misconstrued and / or came across as aggressive (but I won't apologise for being protective!) ☺

Although that is - emotionally speaking - harder for some and easier for others. Maybe OP isn't "letting them" waste their time. Maybe it's that they can't just turn it off and do the dishes / go for a walk

@mandyjw The desire comes, or it doesn't. If it is genuinely for enlightenment, you won't be able to stop it even if you want to. If it is for something not-enlightenment, that will always take precedence. Neither is right or wrong. So play with it. Stop when it gets uncomfortable. You'll either come back, or not. Worried that a path is wrong? Spend a little time running along it to check. If it's wrong, you'll know

Primarily that they gave me something to remember in times of doubt - that these things did happen so maybe I'm not chasing a pipe dream

ok, so it's a question of focus. Do you focus on the happy good now feelings, or the thoughts that tell you it's all pointless and the feelings that come from that? Yes it is a choice

I always liked Jed McKenna's version: you're of no help to others so long as you're trapped in the same situation they are. Wake up first, and then you might turn around and be of use to others

This is an interesting problem that I have encountered a lot with these kinds of books. There's a significant, significant difference between reading and understanding, applying, and thinking (or convincing yourself) that you are applying. The only thing that I can suggest is that you take one book, one chapter, one idea, and focus on that until you know you understand it, and that you actually embody it without having to consciously remind yourself of. Which is frustrating if you have three-dozen books that you want to apply right now. But this is how change happens - little steps, a bit at a time, with space to integrate. And sometimes these things feel impossible. I remember my therapist telling me that I needed to accept myself more. It took me three months working on that just to work out what it meant, let alone do it... So I suppose my advice is focus, look at one thing at a time. Habits take time to form, change takes time to happen, and if you try to to do too much all in one go you'll not to any of it (citation: experience).

Depends on how you define 'pointless'. The feeling exists now, right? Has impact and meaning now, right? Enough that it breaks your heart? There are two ways of looking at 'pointless', or 'meaningless'. One is a very negative sense which goes against our instinctive/biological/psychological nature - which craves meaning and purpose. The other way to look at it is that pointless simply means there is no inbuilt point, so you get to make your own. That's much more empowering IMHO

@GafaRassaDaba Well I'd be wary of recommending any one thing. I've learned a lot - that's the key thing. I've read a lot about how the mind works, how it develops, how it can misfire. I've been to doctors, counselors, mental health support groups and forums, and spent a long time regularly seeing a therapist to specifically break down my mind's habits and dysfunctions. I've been on courses to learn techniques like CBT to help me regulate my behaviour and thinking patterns. The most important thing I've learned to do - and this has taken a very, very long time (I'm the same age as you and started having problems with depression, anxiety, anger, and suicidal ideation around the same time as you, and with alcohol not long after that) - is to look at my psychology, behaviour, and emotions with curiosity and interest, rather than with resentment. To think about why I feel/think/do the things I do, and to look at them in terms of an interesting story to be understood, rather than hating myself and thinking there's something wrong with me for having them. Takes a lot of work, and I certainly needed a lot of help along the way

@GafaRassaDaba Ever experience things like this before you started meditating? Or intrusive thoughts, or suicidal thoughts or depressions without having those "aha" moments? Cos if you've got psychological issues that have yet to be dealt with, then you probably need to do more to address those than just meditate and hope they go away. I have worked, and continue to work, extremely hard to get past my mental issues - and it's only in light of that work that I can understand myself and attain peace or calm, not through destroying them but through understanding what is happening and not so readily identifying with them. There's nothing wrong with combining a spiritual exploration with a psychotheraputic one: in fact I think in many ways they are complementary. Might not be the thing, of course, but if you've had that intense a mind and visual imagination prior to starting to meditate, and it's really causing you that much grief, it might be worth looking into.

Steven Norquist once said something along the lines of "You don't want this. But now it's happened I wouldn't trade it for anything". Jed McKenna has said similar things

@ivankiss I'm afraid I have no idea anymore! Made sense when I wrote it.

@ivankiss In fairness, I have to confess to a very specific point: I look at everything on here as to how helpful it is in providing the most direct path to waking up. So in my reply you see my prejudice. I apologise. To play by the rules: I wonder if you conflate technology and AI, when one is a specific application of the other? But I still don't want @luckieluuke to allow him/herself to become distracted without knowing it's happening! I expect that's where my irritation comes from - feeling like I've wasted my own time and mental/emotional energy

I'm sorry, but whether or not that's true is entirely beside the point. Same with @ajasatya's reply, and so many others when thought experiments are posited. The details of the technology of the thought experiment don't matter. The point is the question it is making you address*. @ivankiss seems to want to go the other way, dismissing the validity of the thought experiment by heading down a philosophical tunnel (unless, on a re-read, I have misunderstood you, although I'm afraid the point still feels obscure to me. But I think I did you a miscredit at first) Well @luckieluuke, I think it's an interesting avenue of exploration so long as you don't take it too literally - and you've just very politely replied to a couple of questions, which - if you look at what you wound up talking about - provide great examples of how responding to a literal interpretation of your original question can completely derail you. * I posted a thought experiment years ago asking how we could be sure we aren't aliens on a spaceship in cryosleep being fed sensory / emotional stimuli to keep our brains active and healthy. People seemed to be far more concerned with talking about the technology and rationale of cryosleep than actually, you know, addressing the point. And, of course, I had actually answered the point myself in my original post, but that's another thing entirely

But I'm willing to bet you're still looking for one. Written from one who still is a well - he's just realised how fucking stupid it is