Salvijus

Gheesh. Lol. Well... You have to agree with me when I say these are quite gigantic claims. I'm not gonna question if it's true or not tho. But probability wise, it's very very hard to believe imo

Whaaaaaat. Lol what kind of logic bending gymnastics is this I don’t know how you were able to dodge the question so eloquently lol. But let me get this straight. You're claiming you can sit for 50years with absolutely no sense of restlessness or impatience?

@Osaid I want to hear your thoughts on this

I like this part. And this. But not this but I don't have the energy to disagree anymore

I would be able to sit with eyes closed for 50 years and not even notice it. Now you see the size of weight of claiming to have transcended impatience?

@Osaid the problem is, some people are completely oblivious to their inner conditions and they always think they are "fine" when in reality they are "far from fine". I'm not saying it's you. But in general. Many people are quite blind to the levels of misery that lives deep deep inside them. Often would even say they are happy to others with a big smile on their face lol.

@Osaid @Osaid the realization might be simple according to you. But the elimination of misery has so many layers... That is what I wonder if you truly appreciate the depths of it by saying you have ended all of it... Big statements... Big big big statements.... Super gigantic statements right there.

@Osaid @Osaid well... I wonder if you realize the weight of claiming to have escaped all misery that gets generated by the ego. A part of me thinks there's probably lack of self awareness and lack of appreciation in you of how many subtle layers of unpeace can there be. But it's just my gut feeling. But good for you if it's true:)

@Osaid nice way of putting it.

@Osaid What if. My response to everything is love while situations are keep changing. Wouldn't that prove that my response is not dependent on the situation?

Hmm. That's quite a big claim : D Well... If you say it's true I'll take your word for it. Tho normally I would find it hard to believe. To say there are no more insecureties and impatience is a really really big claim to me that only very few in a 1000years are able to achieve.

Idk, in my understanding emotions are not situational. Emotion is a response to a situation. And you will respond to a situation depending on what you wish to serve. The little me or The whole. And if you are only interested in serving The Whole because you know that you are actually serving yourself and everything is one. Then... It's a different world altogether.

I sort of agree. In my understanding the desire shifts from serving the ego to serving the whole. And serving THE Whole is pure love. And the more you serve the whole the more love you feel. So every action that eminates out of you becomes just pure expression of love at that point that is not ego centric anymore. Actions are no longer in service to the "little me" would be another way of saying it.

All insecurities aswell? Impatience?

@Osaid I grant you that there are some exceptions when the body's intelligence recognizes danger and gives you a signal to avoid something which is different than ego generated misery. But leaving that aside. To keep things simple. Leaving the special cases rare cases aside. Simply living life. If there's stress, anxiety, attachment, lememting, maybe lust can be included, impatience etc (everything that is not peace and love basically) . Simple miseries like that. The first point I would try to make is that all of these are a product of desire to serve to ego. And by simple logic enlightenment (realization that ego doesn't exist) would mean the end of that.

Damn we were so close to finishing this. Here are my closing thoughts and I'm leaving this. 1. Desire to serve the ego, the little self rather than The Whole is what causes all the misery. 2. Realization that ego and separation is an illusion removes all desire to serve the ego (you admitted this to be true @Osaid ) 3. By simple logic it follows: enlightenment (experiencial knowledge that ego doesn't exist) = all removal of misery and is replaced by perfect love and peace that never fades. 4. If the third point doesn't seem to be the case in one's experience, if there is even a speck of misery in one's mind being generated. It can only mean the belief in ego and desire to serve the ego is still active and thus that one has not fully realized the unreality of the ego yet. Aka, not enlightened. .... So. That's where I was trying get to. I hope this will sound logical and perfectly reasonable for you. ciao

So when the desire to serve the ego is gone. Can there be any cause for misery to manifest? In other words. Without the desire to protect the ego (fear and aversion like you say) can there be experience of contraction, fear, doubt, anger, greed, etc. etc. etc.

Hmmm I quite like that response. Let me see if we are on the same page here. So desires are there to serve some purpose. In ordinary person who is not enlightened desires are there to serve the belief in ego (which doesn't exist) I think this part I quoted and understood you right. Now... The next thing I want to rise. The implications: If one realizes that ego doesn't exist experiencially. Would there still be desire to serve the ego? Or would the fear to protect the ego be gone and there would be just open vast all inclusive state of awareness. (Sometimes also called love.) and therefor there would be no room for misery to get generated.

Hmmm, I wonder if this really addresses the main issue. That all misery (and that includes restlessness, fear, anger, irritation, judgement, envy, depression, greed, anxiety, lementing etc.) is generated by the ego. And i personaly wonder does that challenge your understanding of enlightenment or do you see it the same way.

In short, every thought, action, emotion has a cause for it. And if there is misery of any kind. Scrutinize what is the cause of it and you will find that the cause of it is the false identity and false perception of separation, ignorance. With that understanding you can gauge if your perception of truth is complete or not.

This is not true. Actions (and that include emotions, thoughts, feelings) are not random All actions are driven by the impulse. There are two types of impulses: Impulse to serve The Whole (love/God's will) Impulse to serve the little me (fear/egoic will) The original impulse in all of creation is love. Love sees all things as one-self and therefore always serves The Whole. When human mind loses the awareness of oneness, the false perception of separation, the "little me" and fear of death are born. And with it the pure impulse to serve The Whole gets corrupted by the ego to serve only the "little me". If the implications of the above are understood the conclusion thus follows: If there is any trace of ego (self-centered rather that TheWhole-centered) driven/produced/manifested symptoms, thoughts, emotions, bahavior like fear, anger, judgement, envy, impatience, greed, worry, anxiety, depression etc. That means it was not generated by love/truth impulse, it was generated by ego driven energy. And that means that the mind is still under the false perception of separation (which is the source of all misery) and the awareness of truth/oneness is not complete. What could be called in all fairness, "not a liberated mind/not enlightened"

Better yet. 1. Contemplate how fear arises. What causes it to arise. 2. And contemplate if fear can exist if there is no sense of I. 3. And would there be any desire for self protection or self-preservation, self-grasping if there was no sense of I at all. Therein lies all the answers as to why "I doesn't exist" or "ego doesn't exist" is incorrect.

Are you one of those who think "I" doesn't exist? Neo advaita teachings etc. This whole teaching that "I" doesn't exist is actually false I would say. If you scrutinize this subject more carefully you would see: ego, I, self-grasping, fear are all synonymous. You can't have fear without the "I" being there first to feel threatened. Hence, if there's even a speck of fear in your reality/mind/experience. Then there is still belief and investment in this "I". The source of all sense of insecurity, fear and lack. And so... If you follow the implications of the black sentence. You will see, to say "I doesn't exist" is incorrect.

@bebotalk you could've just sayed "no I prefer conflict, anger, judgement, bickering rather than friendship, goodwill, open light discussion without any name calling" It's okay. I honor your choice. I hope it brings you happyness:) Was nice talking to you Chau chau 👋✌️

A single chance to redeem yourself is worth more than ten thousand punishments. And who would perceive the need for punishment when effort is being made to stop conflict and bring about coherence? That is poor judgement imo. And probably incorrect perception of the situation to begin with. This comment also has a strong "let the one without ego cast the first stone" vibe to me.