Salvijus

The example I gave earlier could help to explain this. It's like when I play video games(just as an example) , during that intense period I forget all about my life problems, hunger, pain, plans about my future, relationship problems, everything is gone from my experience. Most gamers should know that feeling when they forget all their bodily needs suddenly. And when the game is finished they remember "fuck I forgot i was cooking food and now it's burned" That's how it is with someone with zero interest in the ego. Nothing that is related to survival matters anymore to them. And with that pain of 50.years is nothing to them aswell. Not something that they would even notice. Or pay attention to.

Yep "Always" is a strong word. There are various cases would be a more accurate thing to say maybe .

And so pain is no longer more special sensation than pleasure. Both are just sensations. Everything becomes neutral. Nothing matters anymore. Ego is gone. And with it all the meaning and values it has ascribed to the arising phenomena is gone. Goooooshhh this makes so much sense broooooo..

It's not about excluding the body, it's about giving it no value. It is only ego that gives value to the body. Pure awareness sees everything just neutral event. Neutral energy.

Because... Imagine there is a glorious beautiful blazing sunset and on your left there is poo on the ground. Then I will ask you. Which one are you going to pay attention to? A sunset or a poo? That's how it is with someone who has lost interest in serving the ego. His attention is so absorbed on bliss of creation that a sensation of pain is completely not worth paying attention to. Please tell me this makes sense...

So it seems we agree on this. That perception of self is the cause for many actions. Or in other words desire to serve the ego can only be there if there is a belief in the ego in the first place. Good. Now if we contemplate what happens when the perception of ego is seen through as imaginery. The only outcome of such a seeing can be to lose interest in the ego. Or in other words. All desire to serve the ego is gone. If we push a bit further then with it all attention and focus on the body is gone. If we push it further and contemplate what that means you get a samadhi state where that particular mind is so absorbed on infinity that sensations on the body mean nothing at all. And so... It all comes together into this: "I was right all along" Muahahaaha

Yes I know what you mean. These days there are many spiritual teachers and all of them are saying different things lol. There's like new teachings about enlightenment every day now haha. Everyone is just pushing their opinion left and right. With that sayed, I'm not coming with the intention to prove I'm right. I'm coming with the intention to explore. The perspective I'm giving is in alignment with my own experience. Very much so. But more importantly than that. It is fully fully logical. And that's where I thought was potential for interesting discussions to happen. And for the record, what I'm saying, references of it can be found in many ancient traditions like bhuddism, ancient yoga, even acim. These are very high quality material. It's only in the new age YouTube culture that you can find such simplistic enlightenment definitions.

It's not necessary to have a full blown ego transcendence to confirm what I'm saying. Even if 1% of ego gets transcended it is already a huge life changing transformative experience and shift in perception/reality. In that context I continuesly move towards higher and deeper transcendce but I have not touched the bottom. I think i mentioned here that only few in millenia ever get to touch the the full blown absorption into the Beyond. I don't even think I'm anywhere near it.

The key thing to understand is that. Sense of self(ego) is the cause of many many many actions. And no self state has huge implications in change of behavior and how you feel.

Interesting video about the power of the heart

To be fair... I lost my cool a bit haha. Got carried away. And I feel the conversation could have gone better. More open. More exploration less defending our ideas. But I'm glad I had a chance to share this perspective. You don't need to accept it or agree with it. I just thought it makes a lot of sense and is kinda fun and challenging:) Anyhow. What you do with it is up to you:) #NoHarmInExploringDifferentIdeas Ciao 👋

Anyhow... Let's have some closure because I'll be going to sleep soon.

Yes. And it is not a harmless perception. A belief in Santa Claus will make a person do many weird things. And experience many emotions that would otherwise not arise. Same with the perception of personal sense of self. This personal sense of self gives rise to many emotions (everything from fear to greed to anger impatience etc.) AND this sense of self places value on things that are good for its survival. And that's like 99. 99% of human focus. If perception of personal sense of self is recognized to be false, it is not an exaggeration to say, the loss of interest in what happens in the body can drop totally to the point that pain doesn't even register in that person's awareness because attention simply doesn't have any reason to go there anymore. Or interpretation that pain needs to be avoided would simply not arise.

That's actually true. You can protect the body out of other reasons not just fear of death. But I was consciously keeping that subject aside to make another point.

The sense of self is a perception first of all. A perception that we are a seperate entity of some kind of mixture of mind and body. This perception is what inspires us to place the value and importance on protecting the body. Then this perception says. "if body dies I will die" hence I must protect the body and serve this perception of a seperate entity by serving the body. Now let us look at this question carefully because it is super beautiful. What happens when the perception that you're a separate entity of mind and body is taken away? First of all... All the need to protect the body is gone. Why? Because you no longer believe the body is you and the importance the body has becomes zero. The body is only important because of the belief and false perception that we are the body. All of that crumbles.

Without the personal sense of self. You wouldn't have any sense of duality. Everything would merge into one singularity. Again. Very disfunctional state to be in. Without the sense of duality... Functioning is impossible. Because you need to have a sense of point a to point b to make a function. But if everything is point a. All the functioning capabilities fly out the window.

Without the personal sense of self. If somebody was talking to you it would be just random sounds to you and you would pay zero attention to it because it is the person(ego) who places value on sounds and gives it meaning. Without the personal sense of self all sensations would be "just a sensation" and nothing more than that and would have no value and so responding or paying attention to sensations (even 50 years of pain) would just be a waste of energy for some who has no interest in person(ego)

For example to respond to a threat with fear. First you need a personal sense of self. And it will be that sense of personal self that will respond to different situations around it. If you have no sense of self. Any threat that comes your way. You don't feel any threat because you don't even have a sense of self that would need protection. Hence like a vegetable state.

In a dream if you feel attacked. Your sense of self feels attacked. That's why you feel fear. In a dream. And when you wake up you say. "fuck I thought somebody was attacking me" This also answers @Osaid your question. Without the sense of self. You would never feel something is happening to "you" ever. A person would be like a vegetable. Not responding to anything. That is basically the definition of samadhi. Not responding to anything. And not having any sense of self. Therefor absolutely disfunctional.

The only way to function is you need to have a sense of self first. Without a sense of self it is impossible to function anymore. This is basic logic.

Sensation is not the ego. Yes. I hear you. But giving importance and attention to the sensation is the ego. And here's the most beautiful part that I want to share again. Once interest in ego is transcend. Interest in the body is transcend. Once interest in the body is tranceded. What happens in the body(even the pain of sitting for 50 years) doesn't even register in awareness anymore. Because "you don't give a shit anymore" to put it simply haha It's a beautiful beautiful thing.

No. It's not a technique. It's simply what happens when you lose all interest in ego. Automatically you lose all interest in what is happening the body aswell because body = ego. (of course ego is more then that like mental conditioning and what not, but fundamentally ego is very closely tied with the body) And it's not about trying to zone out of sensation. All sensations simply get recognized as "not worthy of attention". And in such a state a person becomes unfunctional anymore. He's just in samadhi. Truly out of time now. This is what true no self, no ego looks like.

I think you missed the third option which I was trying to share. The third option is "to not even notice the body". Because attention goes only to those places that we believe are of value to us. And body has value only for the ego. Hence when all ego is gone, all attention would be on infinity. And 50y pain would not even register in your awareness because your attention is on the Beyond only.

I think if you make your mind satvic, you will naturally wake up early and go to sleep appropriately. Addictions and overstimulated mind (like gaming and TV shows for example) I believe are your number 1 obstacle in this direction.