Salvijus

Without the personal sense of self. You wouldn't have any sense of duality. Everything would merge into one singularity. Again. Very disfunctional state to be in. Without the sense of duality... Functioning is impossible. Because you need to have a sense of point a to point b to make a function. But if everything is point a. All the functioning capabilities fly out the window.

Without the personal sense of self. If somebody was talking to you it would be just random sounds to you and you would pay zero attention to it because it is the person(ego) who places value on sounds and gives it meaning. Without the personal sense of self all sensations would be "just a sensation" and nothing more than that and would have no value and so responding or paying attention to sensations (even 50 years of pain) would just be a waste of energy for some who has no interest in person(ego)

For example to respond to a threat with fear. First you need a personal sense of self. And it will be that sense of personal self that will respond to different situations around it. If you have no sense of self. Any threat that comes your way. You don't feel any threat because you don't even have a sense of self that would need protection. Hence like a vegetable state.

In a dream if you feel attacked. Your sense of self feels attacked. That's why you feel fear. In a dream. And when you wake up you say. "fuck I thought somebody was attacking me" This also answers @Osaid your question. Without the sense of self. You would never feel something is happening to "you" ever. A person would be like a vegetable. Not responding to anything. That is basically the definition of samadhi. Not responding to anything. And not having any sense of self. Therefor absolutely disfunctional.

The only way to function is you need to have a sense of self first. Without a sense of self it is impossible to function anymore. This is basic logic.

Sensation is not the ego. Yes. I hear you. But giving importance and attention to the sensation is the ego. And here's the most beautiful part that I want to share again. Once interest in ego is transcend. Interest in the body is transcend. Once interest in the body is tranceded. What happens in the body(even the pain of sitting for 50 years) doesn't even register in awareness anymore. Because "you don't give a shit anymore" to put it simply haha It's a beautiful beautiful thing.

No. It's not a technique. It's simply what happens when you lose all interest in ego. Automatically you lose all interest in what is happening the body aswell because body = ego. (of course ego is more then that like mental conditioning and what not, but fundamentally ego is very closely tied with the body) And it's not about trying to zone out of sensation. All sensations simply get recognized as "not worthy of attention". And in such a state a person becomes unfunctional anymore. He's just in samadhi. Truly out of time now. This is what true no self, no ego looks like.

I think you missed the third option which I was trying to share. The third option is "to not even notice the body". Because attention goes only to those places that we believe are of value to us. And body has value only for the ego. Hence when all ego is gone, all attention would be on infinity. And 50y pain would not even register in your awareness because your attention is on the Beyond only.

I think if you make your mind satvic, you will naturally wake up early and go to sleep appropriately. Addictions and overstimulated mind (like gaming and TV shows for example) I believe are your number 1 obstacle in this direction.

To speak the truth is not that difficult imo. I would say to the degree you're honest, to that degree you speak the truth.

In my experience dissociation/withdrawal/ignoring doesn't work. It just puts the feelings under the rug. But when the situation or a person pops up in your awareness, again the same feelings will surface. The only thing that has ever worked for me was learning to be vulnurable, allowing all feelings to be there as it is. And let it be transformed/healed through heart's presence/energy. It's a powerful advice, unfortunaly it can be tricky to explain how to tap into that energy of forgiveness. But maybe this comment will give you some hints/direction where to begin to look for an answer.

@Sugarcoat :)

I understand what you're proposing. I'm not dismissing your theory. I just find the theory that "the personality is more fundamental to human conditioning than brain" more compelling for me personally. I can only share my logic and way of thinking of how I arrived at that conclusion. Whether or not that theory makes sense to others is up to them to decide. No harm in contemplating different view points tho. It's just exploration of ideas as far as I'm concerned.

That's what is usually assumed by people. But my own questioning leads me to believe the brain has nothing to do with your values. The brain is an instrument to express your personality. Like the hand doesn't have a personality but is an instrument for personality to be expressed I know 🙏

But you being affected by societies conditioning is becuase you have a personality that is more or less focused outward so focused on the world

I would propose that the brain is responsible for your cognitive functioning. Things like memory, assimilation of information, making links between concepts etc. But it is the personality and conditioning that determines your values/desires/interest and thus the direction of your attention.

I would propose an idea that the same principle that applies to surface desires apply to fundamentals of one's psyche aswell. I would propose that it is not the brain and neurology that determines introvert from extrovert but a personality. And personality is conditioning. And conditioning is a set of beliefs and values. Note that key word "values"

The desire could be unconcious. For example your attention abides somewhere inside naturally without you being concious of what is causing the attention to rest there. And suddenly a hot boyfriend shows up (or some other object of high interest) . Then all your attention goes on that object. Why? Because it is of higher interest. If your attention is inside most of the time than it's because it's a place of higher interest for you. See how it all connects nicely? If something is of no interest to you. You wouldnt even register that object in your awareness.

A suggested view point: you can direct your attention somewhere else only if there is desire to do it first. Desire dictates attention.

Bingo. And why is your attention at one place naturally and not the other? My suggested answer: because you see value in holding your attention there. The conclusion thus follows: Where your interests are there your attention goes.

Well i think that view point crumbles under questioning. At least i don't see any basis to support that view point yet. Also. It's probably your logical deduction, not your experience.

"What is bad art" To follow up on the previous thought. Ego is a bad art because it downlifts your spirit. And so all the manifestions of it: anger, judgement, fear, depression, attachment, lust, slothfulness, greed, disease, war etc. These expression can come through many art mediums/shapes/formats. Anything that puts you down basically.

Nature is very beautiful art indeed

I asked once the same question on the forum and I got an answer that I remember till now even. "art is something that uplifts your spirit"

very nice Dope. "Footprints of god's care"