Salvijus

There are only two options. Either everything is sacred and beautiful. Or everything is meaningless. If you're in between. You're in suffering. But I don't want to touch that subject right now.

There is one other motivator to be alive that I consciously not bringing it in into this convo because I feel it would unnecessary complicate the topic. Everything else I say is fully logical still.

Relax relax Let me explain more then and to clarify. Yes. Food will have a chemical reaction to the body. No disagreements here. What I'm saying is this. Every event, every change that happens in the body, every sensation that arises, all of it is ultimately meaningless, or neutral event. I hope you can make a bit of effort to understand what I'm trying to say 🙏

I could also add. All chemical reactions are a neutral event aswell. It means they have no meaning at all. Only ego ascribes meaning to things.

Shift in focus. Yes. And how is that different from say, losing all interest in survival when it becomes clear you're infinite and can not die?

When you taste smth bitter there is a chemical reaction with the body yes. But there is also a psychological reaction to the substance. "I like bitter food, I don't like bitter food" is an ego reaction. Body doesn't care at all how things taste only ego does. And here's an interesting thought. If the likes and dislikes of the ego are gone. Then suddenly... All events become neatrual.. Or all sensations become meaningless in other words. Wow. Did you see how it all connects?

Maybe it wasn't the best explanation. The explanation with a video game makes my point better I believe

I would politely disagree here. And here's why. A taste of vanilla has no value. It's just a sensation. Pain has no value. It's just a sensation. All sensations are neutral and without meaning ultimately The only reason we prefer some sensations over other is becomes of ego. Ego is what puts some things as more valuable than others and it does so to serve its survival.

I'm done. This makes too much sense.

The example I gave earlier could help to explain this. It's like when I play video games(just as an example) , during that intense period I forget all about my life problems, hunger, pain, plans about my future, relationship problems, everything is gone from my experience. Most gamers should know that feeling when they forget all their bodily needs suddenly. And when the game is finished they remember "fuck I forgot i was cooking food and now it's burned" That's how it is with someone with zero interest in the ego. Nothing that is related to survival matters anymore to them. And with that pain of 50.years is nothing to them aswell. Not something that they would even notice. Or pay attention to.

Yep "Always" is a strong word. There are various cases would be a more accurate thing to say maybe .

And so pain is no longer more special sensation than pleasure. Both are just sensations. Everything becomes neutral. Nothing matters anymore. Ego is gone. And with it all the meaning and values it has ascribed to the arising phenomena is gone. Goooooshhh this makes so much sense broooooo..

It's not about excluding the body, it's about giving it no value. It is only ego that gives value to the body. Pure awareness sees everything just neutral event. Neutral energy.

Because... Imagine there is a glorious beautiful blazing sunset and on your left there is poo on the ground. Then I will ask you. Which one are you going to pay attention to? A sunset or a poo? That's how it is with someone who has lost interest in serving the ego. His attention is so absorbed on bliss of creation that a sensation of pain is completely not worth paying attention to. Please tell me this makes sense...

So it seems we agree on this. That perception of self is the cause for many actions. Or in other words desire to serve the ego can only be there if there is a belief in the ego in the first place. Good. Now if we contemplate what happens when the perception of ego is seen through as imaginery. The only outcome of such a seeing can be to lose interest in the ego. Or in other words. All desire to serve the ego is gone. If we push a bit further then with it all attention and focus on the body is gone. If we push it further and contemplate what that means you get a samadhi state where that particular mind is so absorbed on infinity that sensations on the body mean nothing at all. And so... It all comes together into this: "I was right all along" Muahahaaha

Yes I know what you mean. These days there are many spiritual teachers and all of them are saying different things lol. There's like new teachings about enlightenment every day now haha. Everyone is just pushing their opinion left and right. With that sayed, I'm not coming with the intention to prove I'm right. I'm coming with the intention to explore. The perspective I'm giving is in alignment with my own experience. Very much so. But more importantly than that. It is fully fully logical. And that's where I thought was potential for interesting discussions to happen. And for the record, what I'm saying, references of it can be found in many ancient traditions like bhuddism, ancient yoga, even acim. These are very high quality material. It's only in the new age YouTube culture that you can find such simplistic enlightenment definitions.

It's not necessary to have a full blown ego transcendence to confirm what I'm saying. Even if 1% of ego gets transcended it is already a huge life changing transformative experience and shift in perception/reality. In that context I continuesly move towards higher and deeper transcendce but I have not touched the bottom. I think i mentioned here that only few in millenia ever get to touch the the full blown absorption into the Beyond. I don't even think I'm anywhere near it.

The key thing to understand is that. Sense of self(ego) is the cause of many many many actions. And no self state has huge implications in change of behavior and how you feel.

Interesting video about the power of the heart

To be fair... I lost my cool a bit haha. Got carried away. And I feel the conversation could have gone better. More open. More exploration less defending our ideas. But I'm glad I had a chance to share this perspective. You don't need to accept it or agree with it. I just thought it makes a lot of sense and is kinda fun and challenging:) Anyhow. What you do with it is up to you:) #NoHarmInExploringDifferentIdeas Ciao 👋

Anyhow... Let's have some closure because I'll be going to sleep soon.

Yes. And it is not a harmless perception. A belief in Santa Claus will make a person do many weird things. And experience many emotions that would otherwise not arise. Same with the perception of personal sense of self. This personal sense of self gives rise to many emotions (everything from fear to greed to anger impatience etc.) AND this sense of self places value on things that are good for its survival. And that's like 99. 99% of human focus. If perception of personal sense of self is recognized to be false, it is not an exaggeration to say, the loss of interest in what happens in the body can drop totally to the point that pain doesn't even register in that person's awareness because attention simply doesn't have any reason to go there anymore. Or interpretation that pain needs to be avoided would simply not arise.

That's actually true. You can protect the body out of other reasons not just fear of death. But I was consciously keeping that subject aside to make another point.

The sense of self is a perception first of all. A perception that we are a seperate entity of some kind of mixture of mind and body. This perception is what inspires us to place the value and importance on protecting the body. Then this perception says. "if body dies I will die" hence I must protect the body and serve this perception of a seperate entity by serving the body. Now let us look at this question carefully because it is super beautiful. What happens when the perception that you're a separate entity of mind and body is taken away? First of all... All the need to protect the body is gone. Why? Because you no longer believe the body is you and the importance the body has becomes zero. The body is only important because of the belief and false perception that we are the body. All of that crumbles.