Salvijus

That's because your awareness of the illusion of self is not total yet, it's partial. When awareness hits the peak, the illusion of self becomes apparent in it's totally. And then fear is gone. The level of awareness decides how much delusion it penetrate through. That's where degrees of awakening come from.

Open thoughts. Fear of mortality can only happen if you're in delusion. If there's a clear awareness that there is no you, fear is impossible. Yes, no?

Thank you. So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? In the same way the insight that self is not real will also remove the fear of mortality, is that not so?

Sorry I think my reply was a bit confusing. Ill try again. Illusion of the doer exists, right? And this illusion is causing fear right? So is it possible to have an experiencial not intelectual realization that the doer is actually not real? I say yes. How? By becoming aware of the illusion. Awareness of the illusion will destroy the illusion. Who will become aware of the illusion? Will the doer become aware of this illusion? No. Awareness will become aware of delusions. It's not something that the doer does. It's a consiquence of intense awareness. I think this is a clearer answer.

Aaaa i see your point. But why does the illusion of doer exists then? So everybody can understand that doer is a belief. But why can't you drop the belief that you're a doer if you know it's not true? Everybody understands that the snake is just a rope. But why do you still feel fear when you see the rope? I would say because it's only intelectual. A real insight that comes out of awareness removes the belief in the doer on experiencial level. And removes all fear of death. Would that make sense to you? It's not enough to understand there is no doer, it has to become your insight.

@BipolarGrowth yeah i wasn't talking about the end of pain. I was talking about the end of resistence. I think I was very clear on this. I would question this. I don't think you understand what no fear of death really means.

@Nahm idk bro... i don't think you're being fair here. I ask you a simple question. Isn't it true that there is a fear of snake and awareness that a snake doesn't exists removes the fear of snake? Is this insight not real? Why do you say this insight is illusion?

Yes there is nobody to do anything. Doer does not exists. Doer is the illusion. But how to brake this illusion? This illsuion of a doer is causing all the problems. To realize there is no doer one has to become aware of this truth totally. This insight is not a consiquence of a doer doing things, this insight is a consiquence of an intense awareness that penetrates the illusion of the doer. Makes sense?

Avoidance of pain is survival. Fear of death is survival. They are the same. Caused by the same belief that I am mortal. Only when there is a ralization that I can't die because I don't exist. Fear of death goes away. Logical, or no?

Why do you say this? Isn't it true that I can get an insight that snake doesn't exist. Snake was just a rope all this time? Wouldn't this insight remove the fear of the snake for me? No it's a state where there is no seperate self anymore. No self at all. Just sensations coming and going. And realization that none of those sensations are me. This realization that there is no me is the end of fear of death. What do you think? Why not? Fear is not real, fear is an illusion. But it can definitely be removed don't you agree? All illusions can be removed by becoming aware of their unreality. No? No no please... it's not the "I" that gains the insight. Insight is just a product of seeing that there is no I. This insight that there is no seperate self is possible and is caused by awareness. Awareness of the unreality of I brakes the illusion of seperate self and end the fear of dying..does it make sense?

So?

I'm not saying a unicorn is experiencing total fearlessness. I'm saying there is an insight that unicorn is not real and than the consiquence of that realization is all fear vanishes. Because I thought I was a unicorn all my life and now I realized It was an illsuion. So fear of death goes away. Is it not so? Fear of death was caused by a belief that im a unicorn that is mortal and can die. And now it's broken by becoming aware of it's unreality. Now this insight causes all fear to go away. Total fearlessness and nobody behind it being fearless.

That's true. There is no you that gains realization. But insight is still possible. The insight that there is no you is still possible. Isn't it? A clear experience that everything is just coming and going and nothing touches me. Is this insight not possible? And wouldn't such an insight remove all fear from death altogether?

Maybe i didn't understand your question sorry.

I mean it's a state of awareness when you realize everything that happens never touches me. It's just series of experiences coming and going and there's no owner of them. This realization gives you an insight that there is no you that can be damaged or impacted by any experience. Would that remove the fear of death? Sorry did this answer your question?

So okey. Self doesn't exist right? Self is an illusion and can't cause anything, right? So how do you explain the fear of death? What is causing that fear if not a belief that you are mortal? I feel only because there is a belief that I'm mortal I feel the fear of death. Even if it's totally not real. But the fear is still there nobody can deny it. What do you think?

Open question to everyone, if you realized you don't exist and nothing ever bad can happen to you, experientially, not just with your intelect. Would there be fear of death in you?

Aaaaaa. Okey, okey. But I disagree. I think illusion can cause fear. Like a rope and snake example you know? The belief that the rope is a snake causes tremendous fear even if it's not real. Same way the belief that you are mortal self doer can cause you to experience fear of death. Makes sense? No I don't agree. Total acceptance is a consiquence of realizing there is no self, it doesn't imply a seperate self doing the acceptence. It is this illusion of self that is causing resistence and fear. Once realization that there is no seperate self becomes experiencial. This causes Total acceptance or in other words, Total fearlessness. Because you know you can't die, and nothing bad can ever happen to you because you don't exist in the first place. So where is the question of the fear of death? Once the fear of death is gone, total acceptance is just your way of being, not something that you do. Logical or no?

@Mu_ sorry, I'm not sure what to make out of what you wrote ? It's too many things all over the place. And it doesn't adress my point really. That resistence to pain is caused by the illusion that you can die. Because there is a belief that self exists. This belief causes fear of death. If there was a clear experiencial insight that comes from a very high state of awareness that "I don't exist" everything appears just in an empty space, would that end my fear of death or no? I say it would. Because it's logical. What do you think? Isn't it logical for you too?

@Nahm If the illusion of self got totally broken, than all fear of death would go away. Because you would know experiencially you can't die because you don't exist. So fear goes away. If fear goes away, resistence goes away and total acceptance of everything becomes possible. Does this make sense?

See, this is what I'm saying. There is no self. But there's an illusion of self and this illusion is causing resistence and fear of death. Do we agree on this?

I don't get this ? how does that have anything to do with what Ive sayed? ?

@Fearless_Bum yeah, I think that's what I missed the first time I read it ?

@Fearless_Bum I wonder if there's anybody at all to whom this makes sense ? idk why but it makes total sense to me...

Lol I actually read it the second time and I got the joke ? sorry mb.