Salvijus

No. So wrong on so many levels. Illusion itself implies that it's not real. How can I be something that is not real? I can only believe it. But it will never be true. It's like saying rope is a snake. No that is only a belief and illusion. The truth is that there is no snake. But it has to become experiencial. Than fear of snake is gone. It's not partialy gone, it's not weaker. It's gone 100%.

I'm not the ego. And I'm not the illusion. Illusion causes the fear of mortality. Once this illusion is seen through, fear dissapears.

Nahm can we settle this once and for all? Does this recognition that the self is not real end the fear of dying or no? You already agreed that the recognition that a snake doesn't exist end the fear of a an illusionary snake. The realization that the self is not real, and the fear of mortality that is caused by this illusion, when it is seen through. It dissapears. Who attains this realization? Nobody. It's a consiquence of awareness. Like who attains realization that a snake is an illusion? Nobody, it's a consiquence of having eyes and becoming experiencially aware that snake is just a rope. Awareness ends all illusions.

Okey so anybody has any last words? It's late already where I'm from. I'll be going to sleep now. Regards to all who read this thing ?

It's actually getting somewhere I believe

@Breakingthewall fear is impossible when all illusions are seen through. For this awareness is needed. Not intelectual understanding.

What causes fear? It's a belief that I exist and I'm mortal. If recognition that I don't exist is total, then fear is impossible. Total is the key word here. If there is awareness of the false belief in I but there is still fear. Than recognition is not yet total. Some remnants of illusion are still causing fear.

Yea there is an illusion. Illusion means you believe in something that does not exist. The belief is still there, and the belief is causing fear. Awareness of this false belief removes the belief and the fear.

I didn't say "somebody" got liberated I sayed, fear has ended and that's it. You are being too picky about every word I say. ?

@Nahm no bro insight is not an illusion. A clear recognition that the self is not real ends all fear of mortality. I think you can't deny this. I can't see you making a good objection to this statement.

@Mu_ i resonate with it. Not sure what to comment about it tho. I feel it's a different topic altogether. Everything is always perfect. Yeah it's cool. Just not a today's topic maybe ?

That's because your awareness of the illusion of self is not total yet, it's partial. When awareness hits the peak, the illusion of self becomes apparent in it's totally. And then fear is gone. The level of awareness decides how much delusion it penetrate through. That's where degrees of awakening come from.

Open thoughts. Fear of mortality can only happen if you're in delusion. If there's a clear awareness that there is no you, fear is impossible. Yes, no?

Thank you. So this insight liberates one from the fear of illusionary snake, right? In the same way the insight that self is not real will also remove the fear of mortality, is that not so?

Sorry I think my reply was a bit confusing. Ill try again. Illusion of the doer exists, right? And this illusion is causing fear right? So is it possible to have an experiencial not intelectual realization that the doer is actually not real? I say yes. How? By becoming aware of the illusion. Awareness of the illusion will destroy the illusion. Who will become aware of the illusion? Will the doer become aware of this illusion? No. Awareness will become aware of delusions. It's not something that the doer does. It's a consiquence of intense awareness. I think this is a clearer answer.

Aaaa i see your point. But why does the illusion of doer exists then? So everybody can understand that doer is a belief. But why can't you drop the belief that you're a doer if you know it's not true? Everybody understands that the snake is just a rope. But why do you still feel fear when you see the rope? I would say because it's only intelectual. A real insight that comes out of awareness removes the belief in the doer on experiencial level. And removes all fear of death. Would that make sense to you? It's not enough to understand there is no doer, it has to become your insight.

@BipolarGrowth yeah i wasn't talking about the end of pain. I was talking about the end of resistence. I think I was very clear on this. I would question this. I don't think you understand what no fear of death really means.

@Nahm idk bro... i don't think you're being fair here. I ask you a simple question. Isn't it true that there is a fear of snake and awareness that a snake doesn't exists removes the fear of snake? Is this insight not real? Why do you say this insight is illusion?

Yes there is nobody to do anything. Doer does not exists. Doer is the illusion. But how to brake this illusion? This illsuion of a doer is causing all the problems. To realize there is no doer one has to become aware of this truth totally. This insight is not a consiquence of a doer doing things, this insight is a consiquence of an intense awareness that penetrates the illusion of the doer. Makes sense?

Avoidance of pain is survival. Fear of death is survival. They are the same. Caused by the same belief that I am mortal. Only when there is a ralization that I can't die because I don't exist. Fear of death goes away. Logical, or no?

Why do you say this? Isn't it true that I can get an insight that snake doesn't exist. Snake was just a rope all this time? Wouldn't this insight remove the fear of the snake for me? No it's a state where there is no seperate self anymore. No self at all. Just sensations coming and going. And realization that none of those sensations are me. This realization that there is no me is the end of fear of death. What do you think? Why not? Fear is not real, fear is an illusion. But it can definitely be removed don't you agree? All illusions can be removed by becoming aware of their unreality. No? No no please... it's not the "I" that gains the insight. Insight is just a product of seeing that there is no I. This insight that there is no seperate self is possible and is caused by awareness. Awareness of the unreality of I brakes the illusion of seperate self and end the fear of dying..does it make sense?

So?

I'm not saying a unicorn is experiencing total fearlessness. I'm saying there is an insight that unicorn is not real and than the consiquence of that realization is all fear vanishes. Because I thought I was a unicorn all my life and now I realized It was an illsuion. So fear of death goes away. Is it not so? Fear of death was caused by a belief that im a unicorn that is mortal and can die. And now it's broken by becoming aware of it's unreality. Now this insight causes all fear to go away. Total fearlessness and nobody behind it being fearless.

That's true. There is no you that gains realization. But insight is still possible. The insight that there is no you is still possible. Isn't it? A clear experience that everything is just coming and going and nothing touches me. Is this insight not possible? And wouldn't such an insight remove all fear from death altogether?

Maybe i didn't understand your question sorry.