Salvijus

I think the real question is: is logic invented or discovered? If logic exist in the universe then so does mathematics because they are the same thing really. But somehow existence is both logical and illogical at the same time. That becomes confusing. But since logic is part or existence. So math would be also part of it, not something invented.

Is logic discovered or invented? I would argue that logicality of existence is discovered. And so is mathematics because mathematics is just an expression of logicality of existence. Existence follows certain laws. Everything that fits into these laws we call logical, everything that doesn't fit into the natural laws we call "doesn't make sense" So mathematics is basicly the science of logic. The science of making sense about existence. So it is discovered. Only the symbols and the language of mathematics are invented. But what that language discribes is not invented, it exists. We express the logicality of existence and its laws through the language we call "mathematics". Therefor mathematics is a way of describing existence not inventing things that are not there. That would be my perspective for now. Interesting question really.

Existing as a non physical thing maybe. Like pure awareness for example. A dimension that has no physical attributes but still exists. Almost like space. If we removed all the physical elements in the existence would space still exist?

Dbz rules. I constantly see references to enlightenment and spiritually in these anime. I love it. There's one anime called yi nian yong heng full of daoists spirituality in it. But it could be too advanced for this forum. Only those who understand something about daoist esoteric spirituality can watch that show and enjoy it like i do. ?

Lol. This one is better. ... Flow state as explained by Whis in this video: Action that comes from pure impulse. When fear, hesitation and all egoic efforts to control the outcome are gone. Then life is moving life without any blocks of the ego. It's also called wu wei in daoism. Learning to follow the currents of vital force and becoming absolutely in sync with existence that there is absolutely no delay between movement of intention/prana and actual manifestaion of the action. At the end Whis says energy goes so fuckin high that all duality dissapears. Total oneness. Fight is happening without a fighter. Just cosmos dancing. So beautiful. I cry every time watching that video ? (not really)

This is nice, im sensing some kind of consensus here? ? good. I dislike when conversations end in conflict. Tcare I understand the point about there being no seperate controller of things btw. It’s a good perspective as long as people dont start to deny that spiritual practices are a cause of disillusionment from false identity, and drinking water quenches thirst relatively speaking.

@VeganAwake Lol, veganawake is here ? I know if I start a convo with u it's going to be total madness ill pass:D

I understand the point that everything is happening on its own without a controler. Still when i ask if water quenches thirst, you do all this unnecessary mental gymnastics to avoid accepting the fact that spiritual practices cause a shift in perception. Yes drinking water and spiritual practice is part of the dream. We all understand that. But this dream is not random, this dream follows certain rules and laws of physics. And drinking water quenches thirst is a law. Same way there are causes that change a shift in perception and brake down illusions. What is written here makes so much sense that even a fool could agree about it. Yet u still find a way to disagree. Why? I think some people just have "disagree at all cost" mentality. Trying desperatly not to admit simple things bc it hurts their sense of ego too much as if agreeing with their worst enemy (me in this case). The wise thing for me to do would be to stop pushing this further and wish u well. Tcare ?

I see your point here. But what if i asked u what causes quenching of thirst, would u say water or big bang? Bc both answers are true ultimately. But to say water quenches the thirst is much more practical imo. In the same manner i would say spiritual practices cause shift in indentity from false to real, not the big bang ? tho technically both answers are acceptable in a way.

@axiom im loving your tone right now, it's really gentle without any triggered emotions So what in your opinion causes the shift in perception and identity from mind-body to pure witness if not spiritual practice? Didn't u have your insight while doing vipassana? Doesn't that prove the whole point?

This is true. Everything is appearing and disappearing and there is no "me" inside it. Even spiritual practice is appearing and disappearing. All this is true and i agree with it. The problem is it's not our direct experience yet. We identify ourselves with a limited false sense of psychological self precisely because we are not aware of our true nature as pure witness. One who becomes aware of our true nature of pure witness no longer identifies with anything that is impermenant. That's a radical shift in perception right there! And this shift won't happen by intelectual understanding. It only happens when awareness penetrates all illusions and false identities. And it just so happens that spiritual practices cause this disillusionment and brake all false identities. See. There's no escapeing spiritual practice. Because that's only thing that will brake false perception. And truthful perception is the only thing that counts. Intelectual understanding is as good as toilet paper. (I see u have slightly different arguments then classic neo advaita. I like that )

Id rather teach real neo advaita, the one that j krishnamurti was teaching. It sounds similar. But it's woooorlds apart. Removing the flaws of current neo advaita could actually give rise to a very powerful teaching that very few have the brains to understand. That's basicly krishnamurti's teaching in essence.

Lol ?

@Raptorsin7 i wish i could talk to people face to face in real live setting. This topic is so so tangled and messed up it takes enourmous eloquence (that i don't have) to explain something in an easy to understand way over the text format. And on top of that u have to deal with very defensive deniers that have disagree at all cost attitude and put zero effort in understanding what is written it's just impossible. Someday maybe ill explain in more depth and with deeper clarity and conviction the flaws of neo advaita over the live setting.

Nah, watch and see how dishonest and defensive they can be. Even if i sayed 2+2=4 they would still find a way to disagree ? It's like they put 100% effort in disagreeing with me without even caring if it makes sense or no ? disagree at all cost is their attitude. Edit. I think i misunderstood what u sayed but nvm.

Anybody can understand intelectually that everything is One. But for a direct shift of perception where all false sense of duality vanishes, mental conviction is not enough. That's the problem with neo advaita. They just understand intelectually that there is no tangable "me", everything is just appearing and disappearing on it's own without a controler. This is all true and fine, but the actual experience of these words are missing. It's only true on intelectual level for neo advaitists. Actual shift of perception from seperate false self into unlimited no self is missing. What could be more ridiculous then this?

1. Seeker is not real. (True.) 2. Trying to achieve something called enlightenment only reinforces the illusion of seperate self. (Also true.) 3. Then how to brake the false perception of seperate self into a true perception of no self? 4. No amount of intelectual masturbation is gonna help to make that shift of perception happen and brake the illusion. 5. There are cause and effect in this world. Some things cause the illusion of seperate self to be broken where direct experience of no self is realized experiencially. Those causes are called spiritual practices. And with this my friends neo advaita got fully debunked. But what u will do is u half misunderstand what was written, become defensive about it and reply with something that has absolutely no relevence. Completly ignoring the fact that what is written above makes 100% sense and is a legit neo advaita debunk. I know because that same thing happened many times already. It's funny to watch things repeat itself again and again.

Okey i can't keep this up anymore. Im going to sleep. Good luck and tcare. I hope we can still be friends ? love u guys ❤

That's true on intelectual level. But unless we change our perception into direct realization of these words it is useless. There are cause and effect in this world. And certain causes can brake a sense of separation into perception of oneness. That's what spiritual practices are all about. This makes so much sense that only if you're super dishonest will u find a way to disagree with it. I hope u chose honesty.

@Leo Gura i forgive u

@Raptorsin7 :D

Ay ai ai... How do I reach these neo advaitists....

@axiom brooooo, don't ignore me ? Please, read it carefully. And be 100% honest to yourself. What i wrote before debunks neo advita fully. U have to see it. U have to. It will be your best day ever. U will become so much smarter and more inteligent. Why wouldn't u want that? Please examine it carefully without being defensive.

It's full of flaws really.