Mal

Wigglesworth is right. This is philosophy. And personally I'm done with such conversations, they are a trap. It's just creating one belief system to undo another.

I think I know what you are saying. All our resources are a path to awakening (consciousness growth) but none of them lead to "enlightenment", because there is no path to the crown chakra (I remember the personal accounts you have given us of your enlightenment). So, what you are saying is that being and oneness is not real enlightenment, it's only a stage along the way? Real enlightenment is what you described to me yesterday. I'm I getting it?

Uncomfortably informative

Thank you

Strangely enough, I understood that I didn't want enlightenment. I want the dream, I don't want to be nothing. There looks like there is nothing to live for there. A black hole forever.

I literally saw there was no world. Included in the fear was sorrow that there is no world. The only thing left that had to dissapear was the feeling of me

Right. Because I just had an experience where all objects disappeared and the only thing left was my fear of annihilation. Was I close?

What is enlightenment? Just curious

Would you talk to somebody face to face like this? If you don't speak to others like this face to face then these kinds of comments are nothing but trolling and baiting.

Wow David. Really interesting. How come you are on here? A website of 30 or so people who are all on the non duality path, trying to argue with them that they know jack about their own experiences. Wouldn't your time be better off writing a book about this so that the world can benefit from your amazing insights? Surely then your time and energy wouldn't be flushed down the can like it is here? Do you have a link to your website? I for one would like to see how your insights hold up against expert scrutinisation

You're not about to get rid of your ego anytime soon.

@Christian Looks like you are kidding yourself.. Envy leads you nowhere. I'm giving you the benefit of my personal experience and not some chapter from a book.

You should explore that. There's something there worth looking at. There's some good advice on Ayla latest journal if you are interested in dealing with these kinds of things. The 'shadow' is said to pull us back out of the "now".

"This" ?

I just spat coffee all over my laptop

You said it. Not me.

Look them up. The reason I make the distinction is because both are negative motivators and won't lead to getting needs met. They are unhealthy symptoms and this indicates that they need to be tackled at the root rather than try to obtain what we think is lacking. The mistake that these two motivators can contribute to growth is damaging and based on a deficiency mindset, deficiency has nothing to do with self actualisation.

@vizual Viz, You are right on so many issues. Thanks for being here Mal

@Christian Hi Chris, This is very insightful. What you're speaking of is "envy" not jealousy. Jealousy is a situation where you may imagine you are going to lose something important to you. An example would be a jealous boyfriend who worries that the hunky guy talking to his girlfriend is possibly a potential threat to their relationship. Jealousy of this type are a spiritual problem, a problem with the illusion of ownership, me, mine, this woman is mine and I might lose her. Envy on the other hand is a symptom of extreme low self worth. These two things are distinct from 'admiration' and 'respect'. Admiration and respect are healthy indicators of what we might be attracted to, and in some cases might be inspired to acquire for ourselves in the future. Jealousy and envy are for the dysfunctional among us. Let's not mistake these for something positive that may lead to greater fulfillment.

It's not abnormal to go through periods of emotional upheaval, depression, rage when waking up. It can happen suddenly for some people, but most of us have to work at it, and that might mean years of confusion. The best thing you can do in my opinion is begin to block out the nonsense of others and start turning inward for self support. Sorry, I didn't understand the nature of your original question, I hadn't realised you had a no self experience.

@popi You don't meditate, do you? LOL

@Time Traveler Guilt in my opinion is a big one. From what I can tell (for me) it stems from a programme that tells me I should not be who I am, that I must take care of others needs and well being. It is beginning to look like a pathology that doesn't allow all seperate forms to be seperate forms. A kind of self hatred of being seperate. The New Age system doesn't help much with this, perhaps perpetuates it somewhat with its fake "high consciousness" values being imposed like any other religion? Not very Integral! Just my thoughts on this right now

@ProblemSolving I agree. One must do what they do until they are done with it. If somebody is thinking about taking the rocky road, but are not quite sure, then I will give them the benefit of my experience, and leave them to decide for themselves. But to tell somebody that they need to stop doing something that is already ingrained is probably a losing game, because of this conflicting drives thing, it just strengthens the false self and ingrains the habit even more.

LOL