Mal

@charlie2dogs I tried to formulate and answer, then my mind went blank. I have no idea what the ego is and who im supposed to be sending metta too. There is nothing there. I was afraid I'd no longer be if I couldn't come up with a response. Thank you for these koan

Hi All... I feel the need to say that if any of us feel a twinge of shame or embarrassment after seeing the ego's need for being here, needing to post, needing to be heard, compete, argue... or making mistakes, getting it wrong please send the ego loving kindness. There is no need to fight with the ego once we have seen through another one of its many faces. It's all context dependant anyway. Seeing is enough. Transcend and include, people ! Warm Regards -Mal

@Actualizer "I'm offended"... "I'm not offended"...

@cetus56 Yes They are also good for clearing up so many of the "New Age" style misconceptions we are witnessing. Edit - I read somewhere years ago on another posting board that a researcher made a passing comment that realizers like Eckhart Tolle and Byron Katie are still stuck at green. This is of course speculation, but if anybody has any thoughts about this I'd be very interested in hearing some views.

@Leo Gura Hi Leo, There is a lot more to it, but I just want to mention here that, yes you are right that enlightenment can happen to a person on any level of the spiral. The bad news is once enlightement has stabilized at say "orange" this cognitive level WILL flavour the realization. According to Charles "Skip" Alexander and Suzanne Cook-Greuter's perspective at least. In addition, the reason I mention Spiral Dynamics on this particular forum is because despite it not actually being a model for "personal" development (it's in fact a model for social development), I assume that it's still probably the only model that a substantial proportion of your audience here are presently aware of. This doesn't mean that Spiral Dynamics is useless to us, it correlates very well with most other ego and transpersonal ego stage models known to us at present. I will be making a presentation of the western developmental model that includes research on higher ego stages - stages that developmental researchers presently suspect are akin to the Bodhisattva level of awakening: Unitive Self stage. These kinds of maps are actually psychoactive and assist in accelerating development and eventually the transcendental finale of the development path - "Unity Consciousness"! Yes we can shoot for enlightenment now at whatever stage were at. But unfortunately it won't be as full a realization as we're currently now aware of. -Mal

Ego talking ego. Very subtle!

Hi Carlo, The point is to sit and let the body and mind do as it pleases. Despite the initial instruction is to "do nothing" , the technique paradoxically is also an invitation to "do everything". Mal

@charlie2dogs It's funny, because if I just sit with this question things start to make sense. The ego becomes rather humourous! Thank you Charlie for what you do Warm regards

@Actualizer "I'm liberated"....

@Natalya Hi Natalya This is indeed a tricky situation. I have been in this position myself, my trade is notorious for promoting narcissistic characters into positions that they are incapable of really performing well in. If you haven't already, and would like a deeper understanding of the management mindset that is currently pervading our business world, I invite you to research the "Peter Principle". This will broaden your outlook into why our current economic and political worldview seems to breed narcissists like cattle and promote them into positions of power. With regards to your immediate connundrum, even the endeavour of starting our own buisness and the dream of being our own boss unfortunately doesn't quite "butter the parsnips". It's a fact of life that were always destined to run into certain characters that seem to possess this extraordinary talent of being able to "rub us up" the wrong way.... until that is, we learn to deal with our own internal issues. The only way I know of how to effectively deal with the all pervasive problem of "other people" (which is not in any danger of resolving itself anytime in the near or distant future) is by working on "oneself". After all the theories and techniques we are currently bombarded with on social media and endless publications full of the next glut of ultimately useless ways to deal with "narcissists" and "sociopaths" have illuminated themselves for what they really are: merely more narcissistic and mindless concepts and techniques that have little or no real use other than to further feed the unhappiness and ego identification in us, enhances the feeling of separation and alienation and ultimately entrenches us in the dream even more... ...what's left other than to turn inside and ask ourselves "what is in ME that loves this misery so much? What is it in ME that feels the need to take this position against the object of our percieved misery?" Until we can learn to see that the real problem lies inside us, we will always be destined to seek the ever elusive answer outside of ourselves. What a disempowering attitude this really is! Until then, Happy reading! -Mal

@randombodymind Hi there, Two key players come to mind here - Esalen Institute: Michael Murphy, And the late, great Sri Aurobindo. Their work will dramatically broaden your perspective. -Mal

@ranzo1 Hey there This is a brilliant insight, because I think your reaction to this "there is no person" mantra is very healthy indeed. Swallowing feelings and thoughts isn't the way to self-actualization or even real enlightenment. There is actually a term for this "Spiritual Bypassing" - believing spiritual concepts and holding those concepts in the conscious mind to hold back everything that's trying to sort itself out in the unconscious mind. The unconscious mind is trying to sort out it's past and resolve itself, and for us when we're still trying to adjust to life as a social person we need to be regulating this stuff healthily. And then of course there are also individuals who unconsciously attempt and sometimes sadly succeed in spamming us with their beliefs or "insights"! I'm glad you are seeing some things for what they are. Your depressive feelings I think are there to let you know what's not good for you and It's certainly not too late for you to make a healthy comeback! Warmest regards Mal

@tomasCZ Hi Tom, Fortunately for us the transpersonal psychology field have presented a few models (in slightly varying degrees) from a collection of different schools of research who claim to have discovered that even though the "Ground of Being" is an ever-present condition, permanent access to this reality requires from us a complete cognitive transition of transcendence followed by a subsequent re-inclusion of several specific "stages" of human development. To give you a flavour of what these stages are, one such model "Spiral Dynamics" successfully presents a detailed outline of what it looks like to have healthily navigated one's way to the very top rung of ego development - "construct aware / unitive self stage" This self-actualization path is a development and transformation of our conscious and unconscious language structure and meaning making. Once a certain degree of ego-development has been achieved, the next step for the mature self-actualizer is the shift into a permanent state of transpersonal awareness - which has now become a structure because of stability of this realization. Of course, being an integrated path the good news is that one still has access to their ego, but the difference is now the "self" has been developed as far as we currently can take it - and of course, because the ego is now directly understood to be a construct, it can be developed even further as new structures emerge via a process of continual integration of the intellect giving form and concept to spiritual truth. This heralds in the possibility of a transformational shift for humanity as a whole as spiritual truth will have a platform to express itself and integrate itself into conventional life. A truly "Integrally Informed" situation. The reason you were unable to permanently reside in the "state" you experienced is because there is still work to do on the path to becoming aware of how your language structure (ego) creates your experience. I recommend you get into the work of Beck & Cowan's Spiral Dynamics model here: http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/204687.Spiral_Dynamics I'll be posting on this forum soon (for anybody who is interested) detailed information based on the research findings on the cognitive processes, behaviours and values of each stage from the perspective of the individual self-actualized person, including the last personal stage. I'm currently in the process of obtaining more information about the 3rd tier transpersonal / spiritual structure. -Mal

@ranzo1 Hello ranzo, Yes it seems that you have been listening to the wrong advice about enlightenment, or you have been taking a portion of these concepts too literally! This universal mishap is not necessarily a bad thing, especially when we are young or not quite ready to tackle such deep "existential conundrums". Thankfully this problem can be easily remedied! For you, in my opinion, living your life in a regular way and doing what you need to do so you develop naturally for your own sake, like partying, socializing, maintaining your hobbies, becoming the best person you can be, is more than enough. A rule of thumb I personally like to use when studying self development ideas is to first critique them, check out their credentials and contemplate the ideas before committing anything to memory. I'd like to suggest that you do the same from now on so you can avoid falling deeper into any more traps. The good news is that any beliefs you have picked up that are making you depressed you can immediately let got of so that you can return to what's important for you at this point in your life. After all, the notion of forgetting false beliefs goes perfectly hand-in-hand with self development and even enlightenment - so why not start afresh your real self-development journey, the one that is right for you at this point in your life and notice that your beliefs about "no-self" are just beliefs? The idea of "no-self" should never be taken as literal absolute truth (because the reality is it isn't absolutely true) The real secret of enlightenment is that nothing is absolutely true. Those of us seeking to better ourselves should primarily be concerned with the actual practices that benefit our situation. Context is important: the correct practices for the correct situation. Meditation is a tool that all people can use, for many different reasons. Just 2-3 minutes per day of following one's breath maybe enough for you. No need for self-inquiry, big colourful maps, complex theories, psychological concepts, hardback-doorstop books or anything of this nature. Just make a list of all the things you truly want from life and then focus on making your dreams come true. Of course, if you need further assistance I am more than happy to help. Mal

@charlie2dogs Hi Charlie, It seems to me that you indeed have a great passion to reveal the truth. Do you have a blog or have you written a book where I can access the full spectrum of your insight? If you have not already created such a thing I'd like you to consider producing an account of your method and put it out in our world. I believe a book, even in pdf format would be a very effective way in which to pass on what you appear to feel is much needed knowledge for those who are desperately seeking salvation. I am personally interested in finding out more about your proposed solution. Warm Regards Mal

@khalifa Dear Khalifa, If I'm answering your question correctly It appears you are on the right track. Yes this is normal, and yes even desierable However, I proceed with caution here as there is a possibility that you may take what I'm about to say next literally and possibly adopt it as a belief. Which is completely normal as everyone has a tendency to do -but as long as we're aware of this habit upfront, its not likely to become a problem in this case: It is true that this waking reality is certainly akin to the sleep state. Moments of direct knowing of this is what we are what we are attempting to cultivate during meditation, and as @Henri has kindly pointed out "awareness" between sittings. Your moments wakefulness will start off small - that what you thought was true about a particular situation is in fact not the whole story - and there is a possibility that you even may have been completely wrong while unconsciously clinging to a certain view. But merely sitting and trying to artificially manufacturer a sceptical view of assumed reality doesn't quite cut the mustard. This is why I happily recommend the radically inclusive excersise of meditation as the most direct way of seeing through illusion. Mal

@khalifa Hi khalifa, In my eyes the very fact that you are aware of this means a great deal at this early stage of learning the mechanics involved in how to "do nothing". Can you conceive of a time when it will be a possibility for you to just be with your experience and later hopefully "as" your experience? Awareness in meditation unfolds in stages. It requires a little patience and peripheral awareness of a notion known to the human mind as "time" to climb the ladder of lucidity toward a more comprehensive vantage point: and this is why I subscribe to the attitude of wholism - the objects of the seeming internal and external dichotomy is indeed a party, and all are whole heartedly welcome! I'm positive that if you adopt this stance of radical inclusivity toward your own development and sitting practice, you will speedily happen upon the awareness that at present seems to be so elusive. Be and enjoy being. Warm Regards Mal

@JevinR Hi Jevin, To reach what the Vedic traditions call "enlightenment", the baseline requirement is develop our linguistic self concept (aka our "ego") to what the developmental Spiral Dynamics model level of meaning making calls the 2nd Tier "Turquoise" stage, or alternatively parsed "Unitive Self" stage. Once this has happened, it is then possible to make a shift from the Witness Self into a condition where post symbolic representational awareness and direct knowing becomes a permanent reality for us. Meditation or self inquiry are the main tools here. But true self development toward "post-post conventional" levels of consciousness always follows in the path of cognitive development - we cannot have a smooth transition into 3rd tier awareness without a balanced and well developed self concept, therefore intellectual learning is an absolute must and the ability to take as as many different multifaceted lenses as possible - essential. Hence the need for exquisite text based forums such as this one! True progress will mostly be apparent to us in the positive forms of better functioning, increased wisdom, increased capacity for compassion and tolerance, clearer and more complex thinking, taking life less personally and a multitude of other benefits (many of which Leo has already kindly delivered in many of his enlightenment videos). The downside is of course that less and less people are going to understand us. That's because the higher levels of development can transcend, include and organize what came before it, but the lower levels only take what it can "fathom" from above and reduce it back down to it's own level of understanding. Self-Actualization and realization is indeed a sometimes lonely path to walk, but I hope you agree that despite the effort the rewards are worth the effort. Regards Mal

@Actualizer Hi Actualizer, Your question seems to indicate, sadly, quite a serious if not dangerous misapprehension about the true nature of the self. Let's imagine for the sake of this inquiry that you and your partner were both awakened beings. At this stage, granted, you are not going to be able to make the same meaning as a 1st tier deficiency centred person who craves and needs another person or object to complete their existence. However, you are indeed going to feel the effects of inauthentic and abusive intentions if your partner "cheats" on you. Cheating is an unconscious motivation. It reeks of inauthenticity, deception, mistrust and lack of communication. Moreover, it spells out the very notion that there is no real relationship there to begin with if there is a need to go behind our partners back in order to get some deficiency need met in the form of a secret affair or one night stand. This does not mean that enlightened relationships should be bound by conventional monogamy. On the contrary, enlightened relationships can indeed be polyamarous and open relationships with the conscious consent of all individuals involved can now be a real possibility because of the lack of attachment and neediness of the 1st tier perspectives. But in amongst all this conscious consent is also the wisdom, compassion and sensitivity towards all parties concerned. No self means no "ego", it does not mean no feeling. In fact, it's only enlightened people that CAN feel and function properly because they no longer hold any of the intellectual views of the unenlightened stages, but they certainly hold all of the structures created while their body developed through those levels. I hope this sheds some light on your question. Mal

@zasa joey Hi there... Have you considered seeing a therapist of some description? It is certainly not a weakness to seek help with strong emotions, rather it is actually a gesture of self-love, and from what I can see is that in your case at this point I sincerely believe seeking one-on-one counselling would be more beneficial than trying to do self-actualization work. I suspect that you are probably not in a position to directly deal with this one completely by yourself, and that it would not really be in your best interest or the interests of others in this text based forum to try to address this particular flavour of ideation. I invite you to give my recommendation at least some consideration and I invite any questions regarding my recommendation to you. I think many people here would also be glad to offer some practical pointers in seeking out a good therapist in your area. Warm regards Mal

@AngryMan @charlie2dogs @Galyna Hi All... For what it's worth, it might be fruitful at this point in asking if anybody here has really looked into the credentials of quantum physics? It is indeed a watertight theory with around 100 years of, so far, fool-proof testing. But unfortunately within the scientific world a rather disconcerting problem presents itself in the form of a directly contradictory opposing theory of "relativity", which is also said to hold the same watertight field-tested credentials. The obvious problem that his conundrum presents is that at least one of these two theories has to be wrong - both cannot exist in relation to each other! My current (and admittedly very limited) understanding of this mathematical theoretical realm is that quantum behaviour is actually non-existent on the everyday macroscopic level, aka "brain" level of existence. Perhaps some kind and well educated soul here could shed some light on what this, and what it means for us in terms of enlightenment? But as far as I can tell quantum theory is not a completely reliable explanation for making sense of reality, but rather it must be recognized for what it actually is: Theoretical speculation. -Mal

@Tristr Hi Tristr Speaking from personal experience I know that if you have sufficiently internalized your skill-set you will be just as competent and capable of doing what you do, regardless of how your psychological and spiritual development unfolds. The difference between a fully self-actualizing person in contrast to a person run by deficiency processes, is whether or not the self-actualizing person has much interest left in their previously chosen field as they reach a position of inhabiting a perspective of abundance. My guess is that if your fascination in your current vocational station is based on addictions and anxieties, then I'm afraid it's highly unlikely that you are going to be driven by the same "felt quality" of aspiration. This is why (in my opinion) it's important that to really discover our authentic life purpose, and then use our skills and life experience we gained in the 1st tier of our development in order to pursue and develop our heart-centred purpose, which can only truly be fully realized in the post awakening phase of our journey. Whatever the outcome, I assure you that no matter what is in store for you and your future career, if you do decide on living the self-actualized life I have absolutely no doubts that your journey will be an extremely fulfilling and satisfying one. There really is nothing to lose! Warm regards Mal

@Olly And what is so wrong exactly with "lazy" and "stupid"? Believe me, you will eventually learn to make these two characters (along with 9998 others) into your very best friends!

Good question! Perhaps the ultimate question surrounding this whole spiritual endeavour? The essence of enlightened experience in one secentence perhaps? However, instead of answering your question directly, I encourage you to practice - we don't need to know intellectually what this controlling aspect is - what is more useful to us is the experiential element of discovering how this controlling centre creates our current reality. Happy sitting! Mal

Corte, Spot on generally. Just want to add a touch more nuance to this insight you made here by suggesting that we don't consciously chose to put ourselves anywhere on the spectrum. We do however unconsciously identify with a specific meaning structure, and the only conscious thing we can actually do is take ourselves OUT of it. In this context the loneliness we feel at this point in the journey is appropriate because the loneliness is a pointer toward the dynamic of mutual rubriciszing that is apparent at the belonging needs stage. Neurotic confluence is the act of negating and avoiding at the cost of our authenticity the game of rubriciszing and being ostracised from the tribe if we do something to break the rules. For example we dare not commit the "sin" of showing negativity in the pack lest we be labeled completely (and unconsciously label ourselves too) as a "negative person". This kind of mindless violence is what holds self actualization back in our world. The good news is the remedy is indeed to welcome and explore the depth of loneliness that this meaning structure creates for us both collectively and individually. It's the doorway to truly understanding the "golden rule" and the start of creating our own personal identity and values. Mal