Mal

@ChimpBrain I'm not sure how to answer your question except by saying that you are right, but at the same time you are also wrong. You are right because your version of morality is right for your stage. "Should's" are an important part of orange/green - we can't really have a turquoise stage without "shoulds". But at Integral there are no shoulds - there is only what is and a self that is able shift perspective and play all the 1st tier paradigms. You already know that development is a process of transcend and include - you said it yourself in your own terminology that there are phases. Would an integral stage watch a random murder? In my opinion it wouldn't. I wouldn't! What I mean is that green/orange is rigid in its policy toward violence - no violence whatsoever. Integral stages are a little more laid back because it's not so sure about itself these days. Orange and green tend to project and assume because these are both ego deficiency stages that have no interest in integrating the shadow. These stages are more interested in making life work for all, both stages think their worldview is the only worldview worth having. Green's shadow is that it is not aware that it is green - green thinks it is integrated - but actually it's very rigid in it's worldview. If green can accept these facts, then it can transcend itself in time. The odd thing about the transpersonal is that there is no society. There are no enemies. There is just "suchness", the divine. For 1st tier there is no divine, there is only fragmentation and therefore a long to-do list of should's to try to fix the situation. The reality "now" is nothing need to be fixed - the world is a playground, but when dealing with people still stuck in the dream, skills are needed - this is what 2nd tier's life purpose is - growth needs rather than deficiency needs. How does this sit with you? -Mal

It depends where we are on the cognitive development line. Orange and green absolutely condemn hurting others -and they tend to enforce that and push their values onto others. Integral and turquoise on the other hand are different. Yellow knows by pushing it's values onto others it's an inherent part of the problem space. Turquoise is more interested in seeing if a certain act of violence is maybe really in fact an act of the divine. Further to that turquoise even wants to see if it can learn something from these acts and how these acts affect the whole picture. For example, turquoise knows we would not have modernity if it were not for certain acts of violence. Therefore it tends sit back and wait to see what comes of it.

@Dustin Dustbin Dustin, I'm in transcendent experience right at this moment. I am also in a public place. I know without a doubt that if anything kicked off here I would probably step in. Depending on the logistics of the situation. I know that I would be able to scan my environment and make an accurate assessment of the dangers involved. This is not blind bravery. Nor is it my conditioned moralistic programming leading me to act. It's much more subtle, much more detailed in terms of data. However, I have already developed to Kohlberg's post conventional stage, but I'm not sure how much of my ego is flavouring my experience right now. If I was at pre-conventional but in a non-dual state would i have the same intuitions? Perhaps my prime directive at this stage would be to save my own hind lest I be inconvenienced by a disturbance. After all, everything IS the divine, including my own personality. I don't know directly. But as far as I am aware from the perspective of transpersonal developmental psychology, what I do right now not only depends on my present moment state, but also on my cognitive development. Your transcendent morality may in fact be different from mine. Mal

This is not about reason. When were an ego all we have is reason and morality. Awakened people feel deeper than unawakened people. The reason for this is moralizing cripples our capacity for compassionate action. We don't need morals. We need to wake up.

Look at what you are saying. "In the moment it would feel very wrong to me". Think about this. This is how the ego perpetuates itself. Groundhog day. The reality of it is you do not know what you are going to feel in 30 seconds time. You just imagine you would feel a certain way. If you were in the enlightened state you would do what life wants you to do - not what your pre conceived values command you to do. Taking action to prevent a rape in the moment is not moralizing. It's just being human. Moralizing is having a fixed way of approaching the world and messing it up because we're so rigid. Whatever you do will be what is. There is no debate about this.

@Dustin Dustbin Hi Dustin, The way I see it is your reaction is also part of the divine. At the moment however your relationship to this cosmic dance is the problem. That's the ego. The part that thinks it's in control of any of this. Who knows how you would handle it in an awakened state? Life will live the moment through you. However, I imagine that whatever you do will be perfect for the moment. That's mastery. Mal

@Oneness Mmm... much deliberation. Consider that everything you do in the service of self development will have a transformative effect on you, whether you are aware of it or not. Even talking on this site makes one self aware. Meditation? Practice the skill, then make your life a living meditation and inquiry. Skills should become unconscious and habitual Mal

@joseph-- Yes it indeed sucks. We could go down the whole route of trying to make them see sense (I've done this before and failed miserably!) It's a difficult ride. Ultimately we cannot change them, we can only work on ourselves. Check out the "five stages of grief" and hang out here for advice on what to do next with these feelings (if you're not sure). The good news is somewhere along the path we will come to understand that they didn't need changing at all. Which is a very empowering position to be in. Freedom from external conditions, for want of a better description. In the meantime I have found it comforting and useful to frame the situation in the light that this condition is not the whole picture. I have thrown many a label at others for not living upto my expectations, but the label for the thing is not the thing itself. It's not all of the authentic person. Collectively we haven't been taught or encouraged to feel our feelings and deal with them properly. All people are capable of self actualizing, it's just some are further down that path than others.

@joseph-- Hi Joseph, This is normal. You will adjust the healthier you become. You will also start to associate with people who are on the same vibration as you, nourishing exchanges instead of the usual self hatred you're now part taking in. Yep, judging and gossiping is a form of self hatred, it isn't apparent to most people because they need it to avoid the pain they are experiencing. You will start to notice their issues soon if you stay on the path. Regards Mal

Hi All.. In my experience when the centre drops out of the mind there is only thoughts and feelings. Now the party really gets in full swing as many repressed thoughts and feeling can jump into the space that's left vacant when the "I" has made an exit. This movement I believe is called "emotional regulation". Feelings stored in the body and mind create a repetitive loop much akin to the film "Groundhog Day" where all we can experience is an accumulation of the same film being projected outward toward the environment and inward toward the physical body, and when the self is present this pent up energy even attacks the ego. The only way I know of to self regulate in a healthy way is to reside in non-dual awareness and allow the integration to happen naturally with the ego firmly out of the way. Ego's cannot self regulate because the shadow material is just taken way too personally - No "I" = No problem!

@governor I don't think you are being rude. Read spiritual books, watch Leo's videos, part take in spiritual practice's. Self inquiry and meditation is probably the most direct way to get a handle on the ego. There is little point in learning without practice. Learn too much without direct experience and that in itself can become a problem because you need the experiences to validate the intellectual learning. Stick around and shortly you will start to get a grip with your own ego. Mal

@governor You may have noticed egos are always trying, subtely or not so subtely to get life to adjust to itself. Depending how strong the identification to self is determines the easy goingness of a person. The less ego, the less needing to control others. Getting upset when others are not living upto the egos rigidity is control. "I need this to be MY way so I can just be happy, settled, at peace". It's a negative form of attachment to life. Egos can't just let things sail on by, they get involved too much with life and loose perspective. This is why it's scary to let go, because the ego doesn't see that life already has the skills and wisdom to deal with situations.

@OhHiMark Hi there... I'm noticing a lot of very high expectations in your worldview. Maybe you imagine that you would cease to "be" without all these rules? This is not a problem, the ego is not a problem either. The problem, I think at least, is you are not connected to your inner world. Your inner being. You imagine your inner being to be this individual with all this highly developed ettiquete and manners. Manners are important, but after a certain point they tend to become an Achilles heel. They end up hurting you, as you are now noticing. The good news is that you don't need to abide by these rules. Setting others free from these expectations also is an act of maturity. The "right thing to do" will be there even when you let go of these internalised patterns. If you can become more carefree and stop identifying with your self concept as much you will be pleasantly surprised that even though you are more relaxed and easy going, your standards won't slip. They will still be there if you need to call on them in appropriate situations. When you learn to disidentify from your conditioned mind, not only will you become more energetic, positive and easy going, but the skills you learned in life about ettiquete and manners will be there as skills, not as an unhappy "self". You will know how to deal with all types of behaviour in the moment as the situation presents itself. The main thing is you won't have this broken boundary issue of trying to control the outside world once you learn to stop trying to control yourself. Warm Regards Mal

@khalifa Hi khalifa, The route cause of addiction is judgement. This ties in coherently with both theories - Neglect: Think about how consistent and repeated neglect causes a mindstream of judgements about life. Neurotic need: Think about how neurosis route cause is judgement and resistance. It's all interconnected. It's just the surface theories seem different because different schools of thought have created slightly different models. However, continue on the path of self development and addiction solves itself. Regards Mal

@Jess Hey there... I want to direct you to an earlier post which I believe sums up the essence of what we're trying to achieve. Love is beyond symbols and ideas. Ideas are crucial for development, however I am very glad you noticed that ideas are not the complete picture:

@Ayla The joke was a fine pointing out instruction. Intended as an invitation for the integration of energy explosion after the lid of the oppressive self self comes off. I'm not aware of needing any applause or judgement. So you're going to have to take credit for this deficiency shackle you imagine you got rid of long ago. Regards Mal

Nope. Could not find a thinker. Next question please! (I know you requested "no jokes", but I apologise, there is nobody here to stop it!)

@Mary Hi Mary, If you're interested, I think it would be more fruitful to inquire into why you hold no trust in a technique that is considered to be one of the most exquisite practice's to finding ones own true nature. In addition let me ask you, why do you think daydreaming itself is also NOT part of the "great perfection"? Daydreaming is not the problem. It's our relationship TO daydreaming that's the problem. Mal

@charlie2dogs Yes Whatever we grow whatever we choose to feed. Thank you

@electroBeam Ok, I didn't realize you had autism. I'm no expert on this subject, maybe for extreme anxiety and unawareness of interpersonal skills I would look into group therapy. It will be tough, but if you're serious it will help you. Maybe the self inquiry isn't for you at this point? Mal

@Jess Dear Jess, The only thing I can currently think of is a statement from Eckhart Tolle. He says that compulsive thinking is due to identification with the mind. As long as you are your mind you're not going to use it effectively the way you want, it's going to use you. His book "The Power Of Now" is currently up on YouTube. Maybe take a look at that? I hope this helps Warm Regards Mal

Hi Jess, It sounds like you are suppressing something, or indeed have gone as far as repressed some experience that you found it difficult to deal with in the past. Now it continues to bother you in the form of intrusive thoughts. As far as I'm aware the difference between suppression and repression is that with suppression we consciously push experience away to be dealt with at another time, and with repression we have forgotten that we are swallowing something down - the once conscious process of suppression has now become automatic, habitual, unconscious. Start a daily meditation practice and learn the skill of observation and allowing these things back into your conscious awareness to be regulated. You can find meditation videos on Leo's youtube channel. Mal

@carlo Forget about self esteem. Self esteem is a story made up by the "rational" stage (orange in Spiral Dynamics) collective mindset. It fits perfectly into our western social model, and a lot of people in the self help and therapy industry are making BIG BUCKS from this concept. Anger and rage is merely a form of intense resistance to reality. If you continue with this "story" that your anger's root cause is "low self esteem" you're creating a more solid self along with a more solid storyline. Once this has become a belief, now suddenly this story is a lifelong struggle to "get self esteem issues handled". People can spend literally their entire lifetime on this delusion, trying to fix up something that is just a story and a figment of their own imagination. Self esteem pales into insignificance once you discover your inner reality. Then thoughts become much less destructive. Your mind is a tool, work on developing your mind for the purpose it was designed by nature for - intellectual and experiential knowledge for living life. -Mal

Hi Mat, It's not a state. Who is the one wanting a state to be in, that's different from the state now?

Hi All... I'm wondering if this is a good time to insert Leo's latest offering? For those interested in the "advanced yoga" ...