Mal

@rush Hi rush, Where did you get the idea that the fulfillment will take 4-5 years? If you're doing it properly your body and mind will be thanking you at about day 4! @Saarah You're sooo funny. Thank you for being here Mal

@Elton Hi Elton, I've heard tobacco and little "green" well together? Anyway, moving on... I myself used to smoke - both types of posion. I tried a lot of different ways to quit the habit but nothing worked until I was ready. I had to be at the end of my tollerance with the drugs, completely over them, how they made me feel and what I knew they were doing to my body. Only then could I really go through with quitting. But this time something in me had changed: my attitude. My new attitude was that I wasn't really quitting anything, I was gaining! Gaining my health and life back! I took a month off work and went cold turkey. It was hard, very hard, but I managed it. The thought that got me through it was this: I would rather feel the deprivation of not having a cigarette any day over the feeling of knowing deep down that I was slowly killing myself for the sake of relieving a fictitious and temporary craving. Have a think about that and when you are ready to give up you will find the strength inside you. Wishing you the best Mal

Hi there, There is a simple remedy that will solve this little uncertainty for you. All you have to do is take your statement, and turn it around: "In fact I had a feeling that by using my words I am trying to sell on my technique" Give it a try, see what happens and then watch the video again. Regards Mal

@Blaze35 Hello Blaze, Thank you for bringing this up. Very juicy topic of late! I enjoy being given the opportunity to attack these ideas from as many different angles as possible. I'm going to make my contribution here short and to the point, but hopefully not lacking in effectiveness. If you are thinking about deliberately constructing values, then I would hasten a bet that this as a strategy for growth is going to backfire. Everything you do must come from your own emotional life experience. You must decide what is meaningful to you as a person, augment it and live that, because this is currently who you are. Healthy developmental unfoldment requires that these values change naturally with subsequent life experiences rather than be artificially manufactured in order to reach certain goals. A person cannot be who they are not! If you take this organic approach you will find that your authentic values will create a principled life for you, along with excellent interpersonal skills (according to your own perspective). It is only when you naturally discover these principles, values and ways of dealing with life are becoming increasingly ineffective and contradictory due to reality crumbling the walls of your self-constructed worldview, that you will be ready to "transcend" your current mode of living life. Letting go has to happen naturally as the being in you decides to ditch it's previous values and learn to let more and more of your natural "Witnessing" self take the reigns. At this point the "ego" becomes a tool and is subordinated to it's rightful place; solving mundane problems rather than constant rumination over values and principles. Emotions and cognitions must get very complex, almost to the point of not being able to come to a satisfying conclusion about anything. The bad news is, sometimes you will suffer greatly. The good news is that enough suffering eventually leads to the transcendent. Mal

@There_is_no_Chris Here is a quick pointer. Very easy. Forget about "I" for a moment. Think about the life force sustaining your body. Draw your attention to that life force for a minute. Focus on the life force. Remember to forget about "I". When you have become the life force you are, now look at your thoughts and feelings from the position of the life force. Notice you are not the same as your thoughts and feelings. Mal

Not at my age Corte!

Hi, There are plenty of online shops that specialize in dharma kit. Here is one: http://www.meditationcushions.moonleap.com/meditation-crescent-cushion-zafu I have had one of these for 1 year and I would never go back to a traditional cushion. I take it on retreat too

@Ray "What do I have to do today to die complete?" The only thing that needs to die is your will to be. This won't happen until you are so tired of trying to be something that you just sit down and realize what you have been doing. This moment is the birth of "The Witness" you are. The non evaluative being behind all your thoughts and emotional processes. Make sure your awakening is not contrived, It can only happen when you have had enough. Nobody can will an awakening. Mal

Jes, Nothing wrong with ego. It's there to do a job, and that job is protection. The ego is not a monster. @Leo Gura Do you think a qualified counsellor would be appropriate for this site if you're going to take this stuff on?

@jes Hey jes, I think you need to make some decisions about this problem. Being practical and making arrangements to get through your exams without this person hurting you any longer. Videos and meditation will not make the choices for you. It's time to think about a plan. Mal

You can dissociate, but I don't recommend it. However, the choice is yours.

Think about this for a while: How can you stop integrating perspectives? The perspective that you are a body mind? The perspective that you are Gaia? The perspective you are Unitive Self? And so on.... There are as many perspectives to integrate as there are phenomena. As long as the manifest world evolves you will evolve with it. I'm not sure what you mean about external world. This manifestation is the only thing that's real. Beware of false prophets who tell you otherwise. They are merely stuck in the Absolute. The Witness is the last standing point of the ego, what comes after that is an integration into Unity Consciousness. Mal

@Heart of Space @Zephyr @ChimpBrain @vizual @Corte @Kenya Hi All, My current thinking is that (parsing it from the Spiral Dynamics angle) is that satori can happen at any stage along the way, preferably from blue onward. Everyone has a right to stop at their current level, but it's advisable to keep developing and integrating the content from the previously transcended stage. Body mind culminates at green. First tier is then transcended and included. So this is what 2nd tier is all about. Re-integration of the first tier shadow, the transcendence of opposites. Turquoise which is a holistic stage transcends and includes Yellow which is a systemic stage. Yellow has a shadow which is integrated during the development of Turquoise. And so on. 3rd tier transcends and includes the whole system toward cosmic consciousness and finally unity consciousness. So, looking at it this way highlights some of the confusion in discussion around enlightenment. This process of transcendence and integration "Eros & Agape" "should" really be called "awakening" because one wakes up from their current level and then has opportunity to integrate. Nobody can integrate a stage while identified with it. So self development, which in my eyes is based on cognitive development first and foremost, is about paradigm and perspective shifting, which opens us up to developing emotionally. Each micro-disidentification we have (enlightnement experience) loosens the grip to the platform were currently residing on, which opens us up for further knowledge. My perspective is a work in progress, but studying the map in its current entirety has a psychoactive element to it, in that study combined with practice (cross training) is transformative in itself. Warmly Mal

@Salaam Yes you are right. Nobody is actually ever at purple. It's a stage of infancy we can regress to, but there is no language there, no concepts, no "self". The self aware identity is formed at red, around the "terrible twos" where the infant is in its omnipotent stage. The child literally thinks it's own ego is the universe! Spiral Dynamics makes a correlation between the terrible twos and a long expired age of human society where the interpersonal aspect of this structure of consciousness was the leading edge of early human evolution. In Spiral Dynamics language this is termed "The Power Gods" structure of consciousness. I find this book is worth the money just for the insight into the tools we can use to keep children and sometimes adult children (who are "playing up" in social settings inappropriately) behaving well by manipulating them to adhering to some semblance of appropriate social order (e.g. blue, P's and Q's, being nice, no excessive profanity, basic civility etc etc). It's also handy to know about this self-care developmental level so we are able to spot adults who are defensive at not being seen by others as they imagine themselves to be: these kinds of adults who act in these self-defensive ways are indeed acting out a repressed and dissociated "red" aspect of their inner child. For me this is mostly a hilarious thing to bear witness to on an internet forum of "maturing adults". Especially as the context here is self development and self transcendence! I hope that even though you may not entirely agree with the Graves model, that you maybe still admit that these structures exist within the human psyche? In that case maybe you too might be able to see the humour in some these behaviours within the larger context of this exquisite piece of cyberspace! Anyway, thanks for your contributions. I'm enjoying your posts, they are very insightful. All power to you... Mal

@governor Hi there, You can de-repress quite easily. Repressed material is stored in the body, so an excerise that is useful is the Buddhist body-scan meditation. You can follow that with a quick 5 minute yoga session, basic stretching and slow movements while paying mindful attention to everything. Then sit for half an hour. Engage in a process called the zones meditation. This is paying attention first to the body. Then the outside zone. The inner emotional zone. The thinking zone. And the hearing zone. Slip in and out of each zone in the space of 30 minutes sitting and the repression will processed. Don't worry about it mentally, it's an interactive process. Mal

For what it's worth I have very little interest in self-realization. I'm passionate about development however, and the by-product of that will be a transcendance. I know it's been a sticky topic for you lately, and I agree with you. Development is not at odds with enlightenment at all. Mal

@There_is_no_Chris Hi, Who is the one "stopping"the use of "I"? There is a self, there is just no organising principle. The "I"just gets bigger! If you want to have an enlightenment experience observe the view you're clinging to. This is about getting more flexibility over thought and allowing new information in rather than being in a state of "no self". You will always have a self, it's just what self is it? The ego self with no flexibility and just a stream of thought? Or later if you work at it the "Witness Self" which is the observer who doesn't cling, therefore does not evaluate? The Witness transcends and includes the ego. How about the "Unified Self?" The Bodhisattva who is less identified as a human being but more of a cosmic consciousness? The Unified Self transcends and includes the Witness and the ego. It's all there, at our disposal. We cannot skip stages. Try it. See what happens when you disown your identity. All you will do is cement a dissociation from your body mind. It can give you a quickie experience but it won't last. Development is essential for enlightenment to happen healthily. This is about integration rather than deconstruction. I hope this clarifies things a bit better. Mal

@Ajax You're welcome. The crux of the matter is, what are the "causes" of the different ways of responding to life? Development. Environment. Causes and conditions. This is what my preferred teachers advise. I listen to respected credentialed experts rather than random dudes on an internet forum who claim self realization. That's just who I am, through years of trial and error and contemplation and transformation. Of course there really is no free will. This however does not mean we are determined to act out our conditioned patterns, moralise and push our values onto others. There are self-realized people in our world who are also highly developed, and highly developed people, if you know any, you will know are much more tolerant and reflective than the average Joe. There are also highly developed but not yet realized people who look at some self-realizers and shake their heads with dismay. Take Satsang Gurus like Andrew Cohen for example, he had many devotees but his behaviour and the negative impact he had on people wasn't transformed through his spiritual awakening. His enlightenment became his Achilles heel because he was merely "one" with his shadow. As far as he was concerned being an asshole was part of the great perfection (which it is! But a fool is still a fool whether they are self-realized or not!) We develop the ego, and then we transcend it. But we develop it to the point where it's not going to cause us any problems in the relative world. The ego is a tool, what sort of tool do you want? A screwed up one that creates and attacks strawmen or something a little more humane and is able to take a much wider and more mature view on life and able to shift paradigm easily? So, it depends what state we want the vehicle to be in when we transcend the realtive body mind? Donald Trump or Ken Wilber? The choice is ours. We can still condition ourselves to eat better, work out, condition our ego defenses in better ways. This includes interpersonal skills. Please understand that there is value judgement at 2nd tier. However it's not based on judgementalism, it's informed by the non evaluating process of "Witnessing Presence" informing the intellect. An Integrally informed mind rather than a disengaged and atrophied thinking mind, which is a trademark of many popular Western Guru. Something else to consider is 2nd tier do not subscribe to 1st tier intellectual views much in the same way you or I would not consider putting training wheels on our bycicles. Those structures are there for sure, but 2nd tier don't live embedded in those early developmental perspectives. We tolerate 1st tier because we know that disowning a 1st tier perspective would be to deny an aspect of our own being. Limbic resonance is still a part of 2nd tier life, so civility and people skills are a large part of being cognition. Treating people with respect and dignity and observing the golden rule. 2nd tier can still use any aspect of first tier structure to deal with life. The only thing missing from 2nd tier is the victim mentality and the high morality of "unhealthy green". Yellow is a lot more relaxed in its attitude, but is a very complex structure, and the conflicting emotions, thoughts and values are now being integrated and transcended for use as a tool to live in the relative domain. This is shadow integration. Shadow integration is the end of the antagonistic play of opposites. A celebration of self and other, a place of wholeness and integration. I hope this further clarifies things for you. Mal

@Ajax Hi Ajax, In case you didn't catch the irony, my opinion on your yogi post was a strawman. And how did you respond to my strawman? Your way? Yes. I deal with it my way. Bob the builder deals with it his way. What does this tell us? Yes, there are different levels of human responses, not one, but many. Warm Regards Mal

Shambles is my opinion. If I sensed you genuinely wanted to take some feedback I'd gladly help you out with it. Now please stop wasting my time, as there are indeed people on here who would value my help. Mal

I'll hold you to that during your next debate. Have a fruitful day gents Peace and love Mal

@abrakamowse Ah yes. Moojji satsang guru. Not my Integral cup of tea. But still an important part of the picture

@abrakamowse Is that your perspective?

@Psychonaut @Psychonaut Yes. That's right. A lot of I and a lot of perspective. Welcome to reality Mal

@Mal@Ajax I'm not really sure where me spotting an obvious strawman correlates with my misguided misconceptions. You're making yourself look like a fool by not actually reading the texts. You may not have the life experience or cognitive capacity to spot the difference between an energy leeching debate and a genuine inquiry. However, I do. And judging by the shambles you got yourself involved in with the yogi thread I'm curious as to why you haven't learned your lesson on this thread. Practice your digging for assumptions self development techniques elsewhere with somebody who doesn't spot them coming. Mal