Mal

@Quizzer Hey my friend, it's OK, I'm sorry to hear about those issues. I believe that you had a non-dual experience, I read about it too because you posted it on here. I read your history here man, and you have made a fine contribution, just like most have here. And that is insightful what you said about people misunderstanding each other. I'm coming to the conclusion myself that this sort of misunderstanding is happening constantly in the world, and there is no way around it. It's everywhere, I was thinking about it today actually that if we really wanted to understand one another it would take hours of asking the other to define exactly where they are coming from. Communication would be a nightmare! So, kudos for that insight! Your non-dual peek is valid. It's the natural state after all. All I was saying is that in ego mode all we have really is projection and assumption. I thought it would be helpful to point that out. Even if I'm just doing it for myself it's cool. Thanks, and I appreciate your input here. Mal

*This is for the purposes of self-actualization* Quizzer, You have unwittingly given us a great example of projection (this is your contribution here). How can an enormous ego see reality? You're projecting another sense of self into another person where in reality that sense of self doesn't exist. So what you're doing is projecting your own image. Everybody does it, nothing shameful, that's just how self operates. It cannot ever know "what is", it can only see itself. (I hope my comment was sufficiently serious for you)

@Quizzer Which one of Leo's video's are you parroting this time Quizzer? The "Stupid F**** Comments" video?

@Bruno Hi Bruno, With all due respect you're pretending that you can know something like awareness can be packaged into a nice neat verbal lesson to take away and think about. You're also pretending there is such a thing as personal growth, then some event called enlightenment. None of this is true. However if you do relax into life as it is you will find that: Awareness is "this". Everything arising is awareness. There is no difference between good thoughts and bad thoughts, awareness and unawareness. Up and down left and right. This might be frustrating for you right now, especially as you're one of the many people who are currently buying into the notion that you can actually do anything to become aware. I just gave you the only guide you need. You just passed it by because you think that you need to do something, you imagine that awareness can be achieved somehow by us giving you some special pointer. You are asking where to look for awareness. That in itself is stopping awareness from doing its magic. Don't worry. You're not alone. Don't all people chase something to their grave and never find it? That's because it's already here. Drop the idea that there is such a 'thing' as awareness. Because there isn't. When you stop looking the neurosis corrects itself. The very definition of neurosis is trying to find something that already is.

@Bruno @Bruno Awareness is a concept. Clinging to the concept prevents awareness becoming apparent.

@Huz88 Nothing happened

@ChimpBrain Hi, Do you know the background context of Charlie's intent? There is a statement by Charlie, yes that is the truth. But "you" are providing the context in which you put his statements. This is why I just raised a post about projection because I see projection now, not just as an intellectual concept, but as a phenomena. And the irony of it is that it was Charlie's pointers that helped me see this for for myself * DISCLAIMER - I am not provoking an argument*

@abrakamowse If this is any help, I have a religious friend who recently quoted parts of his scriptures to me and I interpreted them back to him from my perspective and he immediately threw away his beliefs and had a non dual experience. Just off the back of me interpreting his religions passages from my perspective. And this guy is devout orthodox. No messing around kinda guy. Totally bought into the b.s - God as a separate entity, an afterlife, the lot..

@dboyle @Linas Hi Guys, I'll let you into a little secret, I used to be involved in the "rave" scene back in the 90's and I have done my time there. Despite having convinced myself that I had the time of my life, I now wish I had not done it to be honest. Not that it did me any visible harm, I'm physically very healthy, but mentally it's been a difficult ride. If you think you might want to get into consciousness work either now or later on in life my advice is to pass it by, just purely for the fact that abstaining will be easier on your emotional and mental life, in my opinion at least. I'm not here to tell you what's right, only what my experience has been. Not great! Thanks Mal P.S. and I'm not talking about the "responsible use of psychedelics" for growth purposes, that is a different topic entirely. I'm taking about recreational use only as this is the context of the thread. Thanks again!

@Friend Laughter "arising"

@Orange Hi The ideas presented by people, even here, are just ideas. There is no truth in borrowing other people's ideas at all. Yes borrowing ideas can be useful for fixing up certain life situations, but in the context of personal transformation ideas and concepts are mere representations, or personal/collective "models" of truth. The "Truth" we are speaking of here is the realization of Absolute Truth, where the idea of the separate self sense is transcended and reality can be seen without any filters of the separate sense of self distorting the view. In that place one can see very clearly what is true and what is not true about life because there are none of the divisions of separation present - everything is One. The Absolute is not a place one is able to hang-out in for long periods of time, unless one gets very good at transcending their ego! And also this Absolute state is not the be-all-and-end-all of life. As Natasha pointed out, it's also wise to re-inhabit the relative world of separate forms, but now with some knowledge, insight and background awareness of the Absolute. Having an experience of the Absolute nature of reality affords us the opportunity to now start working on shedding off the layers of our own personal and collective conditioning or what some would call our false identity. The stories which keep us bound to re-enacting certain negative patterns, attracting certain unwanted situations, addictions, anything that has a hold on us is a "story" and that story is kept in place by stored emotional memory which is then feed by a "story" in the mind of thinking. This is programming, and this is what we call our personal identity. Changing the personal identity is hard work, but it's easier if we have this background knowledge of the Absolute reality. This way we're able to work with these stored emotions without buying into the story in the head. The more one can learn this skill of releasing old emotions that have been causing us to fail without buying into the ideas attached to them, the more one can create a more realistic and "truth" based worldview based on our own inner intuition and less influenced by our past conditioning and beliefs. The less of a grip our past conditioning has on us, the more we are able to have a say in our own lives. This is only my take on this, others may disagree, I'm not sure if I got it right, even, but this is how my own understanding has unfolded.

@Anton Rogachevski Higher and lower self are illusions of the ego. There is no higher and lower self. These are dualistic concepts created by the mind to try to orient itself after an experience.. However once back in the ego after an awakening, it's much easier to spot the seeker. Every time the seeker is starved there is more room for what I'm sensing is the "soul" or some kind of high intuition or objectivity to penetrate and chip away at the subjectivity of the personality. "Enlightenment" I imagine is the end of the identity altogether and what is left is "what is" which is completely impersonal. This is not a "self" at all, but the realization that there was no self to begin with.

I resonate with this a lot. Now, since the weekend, I have become aware of how much of an unconscious and ignorant person I am. I thought I knew something, but it's only now I realize that I truly know nothing. Even all my life experience as an ego pales into insignificance as just flimsy knowledge at best. Its so much easier to take an objective view on my behaviour too and see it for what it is without too much involvement. I get the feeling that lif long patterns can fall away now without the struggle. The good part is that as I come to this realization I'm actually learning more from the inside. I was just saying to a friend earlier that I will probably never read another book again! Which sounds a bit extreme, but those who know will know this feeling.

Thank you thank you. And thanks for the beautiful poem Charlie, contemplating this popped me out of that experience, now there is more peace. I am going to take some time exploring this, not sure how but it will manifest im sure. @Natasha Incredibly useful, as always. Just the abstract concept of integrating forms is enough for a bump back down to earth. Thanks

Hi Mark, No, it IS ok. I for one will be glad if you stayed (if you changed your mind) or if you want to return too. This might even be a breakthrough for you? All of us are going through exactly the same, there is no shame in being who you are, ego or no ego. Thanks for your honesty here Love Mal

@Natasha @charlie2dogs Hi Natasha, Can you help me out? Maybe it's relevant to the OP's original question, maybe not? I hope Mike can find some value in this, if not Mike then please ignore this. What I'm experiencing right now is that absolutely everything is "nonsense". Every single thought that anybody has ever spoken looks to me like just a regurgitation of the same thing. There is no individuals, only people caught in a dream like hypnosis trying to fix up their dream. There is no knowledge, and no knower, and nothing worth knowing. When I read something, even some heart felt story I cannot take it seriously because it looks to me as just that, a story. I feel anxious, a little sad at times, but also I cannot help but laugh at this ridiculous world. How do I know what I'm witnessing is not nihilism? I truly don't know what to do with this.

@jes Hey jes, This depends on the culture. In the West I think generally marriage is seen as a partnership. The aspect of women wanting protection and safety is there in a romantic sense but that's as far as it goes I think. Women in our culture are quite independent and know they can look after themselves emotionally, financially etc etc. Maybe it's because we don't have the same family structure as Middle Eastern cultures have. This might be of use to you when considering answers from here, as any answer will be culturally biased Mal

Sit still Feel the energy in your body, the energy of the room, if you can. Sense everything arising. The pointer is "this is happening to nobody. It's not personal" You will sense quite quickly that the identity is a fiction. You are not the identity, but what you are is "this what is arising in your field of awareness" You cannot understand this intellectually. The identity cannot understand this, because the identity is what keeps liberation a secret. This is why it is pointless to talk about "ego" until one has transcended it. Ideas like liberation, perfection, oneness, God, consciousness, enlightenment, no-self, and any idea of some liberated state where there is not thinking or feeling... all these things keep the ego going, because these are all efforts, things to be attained, things that are seemingly different to "this".

Oh! OK, I'll keep off them

@jes Can we define ego a little? In my eyes the word ego gets thrown around too much. I'm guilty of this too. But can we really speak about "ego" and the subtle differences between manifestations of the ego's efforts, in contrast to egoless "suchness" (aka "what is" "this" "liberation") until we have a real experience of what it is to be in a state of "egoless-ness". Do we as members of the spiritual community blame everything that seems "bad" on the fault of the ego? How about we try to experience what it is like for the "I" to collapse, and then look at what is left? There are feelings. Emotions. I know that for sure. We have this distorted idea that enlightenment is suddenly this pure state of perfection, pure bliss, pure heaven. This idea is not accurate. The realization of no "I" is just very normal. It's more real that the warped state when the "I" is in charge. A simple pointing out instruction is this: All there is, is sounds. Sensations. The felt sense of my ass on the cushion and my breath rising and falling. Whatever is arising is just arising for nobody. This is the easiest way to differentiate between the feelings of the ego, and the feelings of true nature. You are right about the reaction thing. But I've noticed this only occurs when the ego is strong, the sense of self contracts and pushes out impulses and projects them onto the environment. So, it can be said that shadow only appears when the ego is in charge. I thought this distinction would come in handy

Sounds like a plan

I'm really pleased for you. Thanks for being here and sharing your work

@jes Empathy and niceness work, don't they? I must take notes here

@jes Wow. Can you share what happened, how you did it?

@Mal I am not sure what your experience is, but mine is I'm right here in the present, no effort at all, all I do is breathe in, and as I breathe out the question asker in me vanishes with the out breath. What else is there to be done?