charlie2dogs

where was the consciousness before it came to take up residence in the body of the baby

and just because you are programed and have a false belief system doesnt remove you from responsibility or do away with the quantum memory of your actions.

seems you didnt get the point either.

my point had nothing to do with, hate, judgment, punishment, it has to do with viewing the criminal as a victim and labeling the examination of the pain and suffering and horror he created with his crime as moralizing him.

programing is what you have allowed to take root in your consciousness from the outside wold, beliefs are formed from that programing by the identity and then the beliefs is also rooted within the consciousness creating a bigger prison to climb over if the awakening ever begins

as a self realized being you will drop all belief, and your programing wont stand in the way of you experiencing reality, programing nor beliefs can enter the domain of the self realized.

then you are way out in front of the crowd

even after you become self realized, your window of free will is very limited in that once you achieve a state of liberation, any choices made will be made to maintain that state of liberation, does that make sense

this thing about free will, it has never existed and wont exist for this world. Anyone who has been programed all their life and longer and have formed a belief system, is not exercising free will, any choices made by them are made by the programing and belief. the human identity has never seen nor touched reality, so how can the human identity exercise free will.

just out of curiosity what is it that you would persuade me of?

it seems that you have a big choice to make here. you will either study hard, get an education that might make it possible for you to live a comfortable life as a human being without a lot of physical struggle, or you can choose a life of simplicity that may require less struggle on the surface. In any event you will need to provide for your needs and your desires of the flesh. If you dont finish your education and get a good job what will you do to provide for yourself, what kind of job will you take or have to take to do that. Do you have a passion for anything in life that might give you the opportunity to do something that you might love that would take you through life? the human identity needs a good education, and a good profession or job to make it through this life without a lot of misery. right now you are the human identity, how do you want to live life as a human being. you said: I feel like finding my own happiness and doing things I like as though I am not controlled by the education system, as though I have no obligations and I am just on my holiday all the time. I feel like doing activities to find self actualisation and stuff but not study. self actualization as viewed by most is work and study because its about personal growth. none of it has anything to do with becoming self realized. going to school and getting an education isnt about being controlled by the education system, its what you do with the education you get and what it gets you in life that matters. you most likely will be the human identity for possibly a long time, there is nothing wrong with getting a good job and a good profession while you are that identity, the alternative may not be pain and misery free. if you are lucky you might find a job that you can live with, or even create one, but in this world today there are millions who would like to be getting a good education to make their life easier while functioning as the human identity. you are just starting in life but the decisions you make now may control the rest of your life. the question is what do you want the rest of your life to look like cause this: I feel like finding my own happiness and doing things I like as though I am not controlled by the education system, as though I have no obligations and I am just on my holiday all the time. I feel like doing activities to find self actualisation and stuff but not study is not realistic.

its apparent you missed my whole point

I am well aware that rapist are unconscious functioning human beings, they are part of the 99.9% of the mass of population that is functioning unconscious, most of which do not commit as serious crimes as some. Having said that we are here in this physical world, that requires some measure of responsibility for your actions and some have to be restrained and even punished for what they do and when humans commit horrible crimes against other humans such as the rape of women and children and worse, it should not be looked at as moralizing when it is spoken of. so far in all the text here no one has voiced any thing about the real victim, the one that was raped and the trauma and possibly the lasting effects of that on that person, , but rather its about the rapist being the victim of society instead and how we should not be moralizing the rapist. the bottom line here in this physical world, rape is a crime, and it should not be viewed as moralizing the rapist to see it and talk about it, even if there is a big picture. if all crimes against humans are looked at this way it will only contribute to the degeneration of the civilization. when consequences are created, it should be seen as consequences, not dressed up to look like something else.

you said: But once you reach enlightenment it will just became maintenance work, how do you know this?

you would think this would be an easy question to answer, it used to be, but now i have no answer. I dropped the past, there is no future, that only leaves me in the moment of life, and luckily i can enjoy that in a conscious and present state of being. So i guess my answer is i have no end goals. Is that a bad thing or a good thing, if i was functioning as an unconscious human identity it would be a bad thing but i no longer function as an unconscious human identity, so maybe its a good thing that i dont have goals, what ya think there Peak

joseph, you are taking the words of others too personally. as long as you need the approval and acceptance of other people you will always be hurt. Joseph you know yourself, no need to let others put you down, a good friend wouldn't do that, friends dont do that, Expectations of others and attachment to others and things will bring pain when those expectations aren't met. Drop the expectations, attachment and the need to be approved, look at what it is doing to you. the only thing you should ever expect from anyone else is this, they will always do what is important to them. get n touch with your core being, the real you, then nothing anyone says will hurt you. and sometimes you have to drop people out of your life if they are toxic for you and there is nothing wrong with that.

where did you get this idea that the only real reason for life purpose is contributing to society?

when you get there you will know, until its only speculation, and that aint worth much.

you are missing the experience of your core being. when you experience that you will be self realized, the study of many books is a weariness of the mind, and a huge distraction. up until now you have been working at personal growth like most others, personal growth has many meanings and i suspect that by working on personal growth as a means to enlightenment will fail most. Most have no idea what enlightenment is or how it functions. everything you belief about it came from someone else. its a pipe dream cause you are following someone else's pipe dream, books, videos, teachings of any kind, religions, philosophies wont make you enlightened. now some questions why are you seeking this enlightenment? what does enlightenment look like to you at this point,? what do you think one does who is enlightened? How are they different from you? what do you think you will be like if you become enlightened?

you can read other peoples works, watch their videos, but in the end, you are going to have to find your real self to solve these problems, right now you have no integrity, that creates a world of problems for you, you are trying to be something you are not that creates a world of problems. your thinking process is all out of whack, because you have only been thinking as the human identity. If you want out of this box, you will have to let go of the past, find your real self, experience that on a level that will give you the security, peace, and self esteem, and of just being who and what you really are and the only way you can do that is move into the moment of now, and experience the real you on that deeper level of being. the past is gone, the future doesnt exist, and you are spending your time in both of them and its taking you no place except to create more consequences. get out of the past and stop worrying about how you look to girls and get into a deeper level of your own being for a while.

you said: Yes, there could be a number of reasons why your friend got upset at you, however because you mentioned she exposed her intent, it's most likely a moralizing situation where her moral development is stunted at "conformist morality". In this particular case she was most likely projecting and getting you to identify with it using subtle or even not so subtle shaming tactics this could have just been an assumption, she could have simply been responding to an act of violence committed against another human without any agenda or motive. you said: I feel it's an appropriate time to point out here that highly developed people (Post-conventional/pluralistic) will feel for both the victim and the rapist - because they are both victims of a larger social problem. could you define how the rapist is a victim of a larger social problem, is the rapist a victim of a larger social problem or is the rapist creating the social problems, how far can we take the idea that those who commit acts of violence against other human beings are just a victim of a larger social problem. good morning mal

i never heard you address the issue of rape that she raised, why not? recognizing a crime against women and children is not moralizing. Should we just ignore it and pretend it doesnt exist, or that we are untouched by it, should we just reject people who are concerned about rape of women and children because we are self actualizing? Do you think anything should be done with people who rape women and children. you said: I said that I did not want to moralize it and was trying to look at it from a neutral perspective, what is there to be neutral about after some woman or young girl was raped. She had every right to be upset with you. Just because people are trying to self actualize doesnt mean you stop being compassionate, caring, and lose all sight of how horrible rape is against women and children and the effects that it leaves on them often for their lifetime. If everyone felt neutral about every crime and no one wanted to do anything about it, what would the world look like in a few years. There is no way to be neutral about such crimes as this or any other crime against humans or animals. This has nothing to do with self actualization. being neutral concerning crimes like this wont help you become self realized,

jes real self esteem comes from within, Find your real self, be one with it, and you will have all the self esteem that you need and you may find some passion there too

no if they were they wouldnt be here.

after reading the above text you may as well spend that 20 minutes playing video games, you are confused, but you are not alone 99.9 % of humans are with you. you seem to know what the problems are but you are powerless to do anything about them, there is no fix for that other than get off your ass and take some responsibility for your life and do something constructive with it and stop making excuses.