Elliott

@Carl-Richard why do you keep asking me questions? Not that I don't want you to, I'm asking sincerely. It seems like a waste of time and energy from what you're saying.

@Salvijus @Ishanga would you pay $3,500 for a Spira retreat? If not, would you mind giving a brief reason as to why? Please and thank you.

By "mental illness", you don't think Sadhguru is talking about enlightenment? Are you familiar with how he uses the term "mental illness"?

Can you embolden a part that i dropped?Or a contradiction I had in those responses? What "I wasn't claiming" were clearly assumptions by you, I never said spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, I never said Spira enlightens people, I never said Spira was a better teacher. I don't think people can lead others to enlightenment. 'There is no sailor', it's more like Musk saying I'll fly you to mars, or I want to fly people to mars. You're again superimposing assumptions onto what I've said. Consider my critiques are not ad hoc. Do you not think you're strawmanning me at all? In regard to being considered a conman? Yes, language is very critical. Do you think Spira leads people to his resort stays the same way Sadhguru does? Do you think most students from either would go to the other's? I don't. Consider Sadhguru's audience, not you, reading and hearing these things I 'pedantically' point out. Then do Spira's, you see no difference?

What do you mean by 'either tip-toe or annoy/insult them'? Not intentionally annoying or insulting right? I don't see any problem with that, you're not responsible for their feelings.

I was speaking to your "used vehicles" comment. Definitely a leisure trip, you disagree? Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people" (a small bus is most efficient, or two vans. I'm saying a bus is most efficient, not deriding his bus usage if they did use one) that bike is huge. Let alone tire life on a motorcycle is ungodly, pun intended, (motorcycle tire rubber is really soft for grip). An environmentalist....... he published this, role modeling.

This looks brand new to me, like a $30,000 bike. Do you consider Taylor Swift to live selflessly? Some people may incorrectly think, "motorcycle, efficient!", no, it's not! My non-hybrid car that can haul 5 people gets better mpg. Let alone a bus for his 16 people he says is with him "4 motorcycles, sixteen people" An environmentalist.......

@something_else I don't understand your attitude, if you get herpes you're screwed, I assume you can get it through oral too. Antibiotics aren't great for you either, you're a 'biotic'. It's not worth cheap sex for me.

Enlightenment isn't like going on a cruise, to me. We have radically different ideas of enlightenment. What about Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira? Do these guys seem Enlightened to to you? Just to clarify though, it's not my position in our main conversation that anyone can lead people to enlightenment though, it's yours. As you say in your last paragraph here about a "firm position", this is a tangent from the conversation but by you. So, you disagree, right? I can't tell your thoughts on this. See the image below, it goes with this quote "An advanced full-day experiential program with Sadhguru This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected. Through powerful processes and guided meditations, Sadhguru leads you into deeper states of consciousness and helps release long-held negativity. Step into a space of joy and clarity, where life unfolds in its true essence. Guided Meditations Powerful meditations led by Sadhguru to explore higher states of consciousness Higher States of Awareness Opportunity to experience deeper states of awareness and spiritual growth" Spira "Description For those of us who love to dive deeply into the heart of the non-dual understanding, retreats offer an unprecedented opportunity: seven days with Rupert and friends, nestled in a beautiful location in nature, where we steep together in the peace of our true nature. Retreats gather us in the heart of being, where we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity." https://rupertspira.com/events/events/seven-day-retreat-at-the-vedanta-21-28-november-2025/ See photo below. Sadhguru's has "soak in ecstasy of enlightenment with sadhguru", and then from the quotation above "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected" Spira's has "we spend our days in self-abidance, friendship and creativity." I think Sadhguru is pretty explicitly selling enlightenment or deeper states of consciousness here, Spira seems more like 'come hangout with me, you've seen my videos it will be like that', I don't notice anything like Sadhguru's "This program goes beyond anything you've experienced. Expect the unexpected." I wasn't seeking a discussion about this let alone a substantive one, I just gave my two sentence crude opinion, to no one in particular. I never expected that you would be so serious about this. This is not a topic I have much care about. My position never changed and I did not navigate any contradictions. I think you may have been a bit emotionally reactive with my first comment and didn't take time to see what I actually said and didn't say, Instead, assuming my position was that spiritual teachers shouldn't charge, as I had to repeatedly tell you that wasn't what I said, and assumed I have the same idea of enlightenment and 'how to attain enlightenment' as you do.

Other people want someone to be with too, different people like and dislike different characteristics in others, there's probably plenty of people that will want to be with you.

It's not similar to here, it's the people that get banned from here, all the annoying and mentaly ill put into a blender.

Nahm

Read a recent article somewhere, the industry is talking about the data centers being ridiculously underwater already. Lifespan is estimated to be 10 years on the expensive processors, and the cost was well more than 10x annual revenue. It could come crashing down by itself soon, although Blackrock is buying them up so maybe they know something we don't. You have to imagine, electricity cost is substantial for the first one built, now build 1,000 on the same grid, not only will costs go up, but competition does and therefore revenue declines as well.

No, I don't consider the others conmen, I haven't seen them lead people to believe they can enlighten people and they publish their deepest stuff for free. I said I think I can find someone enlightened by Spira, you don't think i can? Do you want me to? It might take some work, I'm not in the 'Spira community', barely know it. How about Peter Ralston, he has a protégé Brendan, and didn't Leo even study under him? Do you consider his protégé Brendan enlightened or him contributing to Leo's enlightenment? Jean Klein taught Francis Lucille, Francis taught Spira. Again, it's not my position saying these are enlightening masters, it's purely yours. Are you working some psychological experiment on me? It's okay if you are, but I'm pretty much done here. The quote I posted said 'it is my blessing that this should happen to you'. I have no problem with his "wish". You're moving goalposts now, you yourself said he leads people to enlightenment, even if sadguhuru doesn't explicitly say it, people are led to believe it, like you do. Now, you could say people believe the others will lead them to enlightenment too, but I don't notice them putting their 'deepest' secrets behind paywalls. Both are great, neither are bad, what's bad is leading people to misbelieve he can enlighten you while puting his deep stuff behind a paywall. It's not some complicated position, you disagree, that's fine. It's not ad hoc, there are other conmen like sadhguru but he's the topic of discussion. I wasn't meaning what you consider esoteric. You previously said Leo gives an esoteric view of people like Sadguhuru but you believe that's wrong to do, that just brute force meditation get's you to enlightenment. I meant what others and Leo consider as esoteric. Do you think most people believe enlightenment is just daily meditation, or do most people believe there's some esoteric method? I was referring to the latter, what I believe is the common idea.

The closer you are to the screen the worse it is for astigmatism, from moving your eyes further. Can you zoom your camera in and sit further from your computer screen? You can improve astigmatism, try to not move your eyes, lol, move your head instead. Move screens further away, and less time on screens or books., proper posture and the screen straight out from your face so your pupil is in center of your eye socket. Wear sunglasses and brimmed hats, avoid rubbing your eyes, eat carrots, spend more time looking at far stuff and sleeping,....

Ah, that makes a big difference. I'm obviously not an expert on that, but from looking at what the experts say, which is a positive outlook, I assume AI to be a temporary disruption rather than a replacement, I think AI will be a tool for CS majors rather than a replacement. Is your school not focusing on AI integration? But how long is the disruption, that would be scary to be looking at in your shoes.

I'm not making the following claim, you are, I disagree with this claim for any teacher. Although, I think I can find a Spira student that you would think is enlightened. Wish, isn't a claim to enlighten people. Who doesn't wish it? You see no difference? "Wish"(and here are my strongest teachings for free) vs. 'It is my blessing this must happen to you, everyone deserves it, everyone is capable of it. Our most serious teachings are $3,500, we accept cash or bitcoin, Namaste.' "The Rupert Spira Foundation Information [...] The mission of the " "something I’ve tried to do in the book"-Spira "It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru To me, Sadhguru claims to enlighten people, and paywalls his highest teachings, Spira is just claiming he's working to try to, and puts his highest stuff out for free. I'm not saying Spira enlightens people, but why would I have a problem with someone saying they're trying to do that. There's a massive difference between "trying" and actually doing, a massive difference between "my mission" and "it is my blessing to you, send me $3,500". Spiras book is $14. Spiras target audience is also the western first world, Sadhgurus largely includes the poorer third world, which makes the contrast even worse to me. If he and you would stop acting like he can lead people to enlightenment, or, you show me an individual enlightened by him, I would have no issue. It seems you think he is teaching enlightenment publicly, but puting an extra spiritual experience behind a paywall. I think his claims mislead his followers into being inticed by his advanced teachings being behind a paywall, like the secret stuff will substantially help them toward enlightenment. I think most of his followers believe in the esoteric version rather than your simply meditate version.

Yet, you can't show me a Sadhguru follower that has done it, millions of followers. Spira doesn't claim to enlighten people. "It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."-Sadhguru

There's nothing wrong with just doing it for money, so long as you don't waste the money. You usually don't need to be very good at jobs, and you don't need A's in college.

Go to the library for free, you can often request books from other libraries yours doesn't have. i love the library and thrift stores, you can find more styles at thrift stores than clothing stores. Vegetable gardening and a used bicycle. A traditional style razor like merkur, if you have facial hair, you'll save money.

How can you say this and then this? This is from his website "It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it." If he's using without a doubt techniques, you think it's a weird standard of me to expect to see one person that appears enlightened? A ton of people go through his teachings, I shouldn't expect to be able to find one on the internet, if he's using "without a doubt techniques"? I don't believe they are "without a doubt", I have doubt, I have no confidence in them actually. I don't believe there is a '10 step plan to enlightenment'. That's not what Sadhguru or I mean by enlightenment, here's Sadhguru's words "But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place." This is from his website, I take it to mean he will enlighten people "But for the first time I did not know what is me and what is not me. What was me was spread all over the place." "It is my wish and my blessing this must happen to you. Whether you climb Mount Everest or not, whether you become the richest man on this planet or not, your experience of life on this planet should be pleasant. You must live blissfully and go. This much should happen to every human being. Everyone deserves it and everyone is capable of it."

Work on yourself until you get to a point that this stuff no longer bothers you, then you can help all kinds of people. Of course, when someone in need crosses your path now, you can still help people.

Not a testimonial, someone that you think seems enlightened, that owes an important part of their growth to Sadhguru. I'm not trying to change your mind about Sadhguru, I just gave my opinion. I'm not even trying to dissuade people from his course, it seems to me to be very beneficial to people. My qualm is a bit specific. You and I disagree on what enlightenment is. I agree with the standard explanation Sadhguru gives, but when you guys, I think he uses "Scientific studies" like you just mentioned, when you start going that direction I'm no longer with you. The others you mentioned previously. I use the standard definition of enlightenment. I'm not a formal type of communicator, I know this, I try to be gracious to and understanding of whom I'm speaking with because of this. Not that I'm apologizing, I find most people don't understand each other anyway, so it seems best to focus on clarifying questions rather than elaborate responses.

I would be his biggest fan if he did his kriya stuff for money and planted trees, my issue is his enlightenment/healing claims in combination with that. And for position background, so you don'tmake assumptions; I don't think he's enlightened or gets people to enlightenment, I think he's misleading, "mentally ill" as he calls it.

I was never against his environmentalism, I'm an environmentalist. You keep superimposing some assumption you have about my position instead of just reading what I've said in black and white. Again you're superimposing an assumption onto what I've said. I didn't say his public teachings were weaker than Spira. No. 'Enlightenment'/"curing this mental illness" behind a paywall with NO proof. As I've already agreed on this point, absolutely. I keep wondering if you're mixing up other people's comments, but I see no one arguing what you're arguing against. You're being super defensive of Sadghuru rather than having a discussion.